Addiction Survivors

Reply
Unread 02-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #1
Redefining_Life
Junior Member
 
Posts: 14
Question Suboxone and Xanax

I have been prescribed 1mg of Xanax a day for almost 5 years by my family doctor, and have been addicted to (illegal) opiates for as long as I can remember. (I also realize that because I've been taking Xanax for so long I am dependent on that too.) When I realized I have a problem, I used the treatmentmatch.org program and found a doctor, who started prescribing me Suboxone. I listed that I was prescribed Xanax on my application form on treatmentmatch, and mentioned it again when I made my appointment, but it hasn't been mentioned since. My doctor did not give me a drug test for my first appointment, and asked me my drug of choice, but not my current prescriptions. I've only been to his office twice now. I am terrified that if he doesn't already know about the Xanax that he will cut me off when I tell him or he finds out. I signed a Release for my doctors office to get my medical records, but they never asked who my previous doctors were to know who to send requests to. My long term goal (of course!) is to get clean, but I am worried that I would confuse the Xanax withdrawal and the opiate withdrawal. I feel it's better to kick one thing at a time(?). I haven't read anywhere that Suboxone will help with Benzo withdrawal... In summary:
How do I tell my doctor? Will/can he cut me off? Is it illegal for him to prescribe Xanax and Suboxone?
Should I return to my family doctor or ask my Sub doctor for a Xanax refill?
Does Suboxone help with Benzo withdrawal?

Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated, and I am grateful for this site and forum- it has been a blessing.
Redefining_Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2012, 08:28 PM   #2
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 22,408
Default

Hi Redefining life, welcome. Did something come up to make you worried about your Suboxone doctor knowing that you take Xanax? You did mention it when you made your appointment, I would think that if there was a problem, they would have told you then or on your first appointment.

There are many people who take Xanax while taking Suboxone. It only gets dangerous when the Xanax is taking in large amounts and/or IV injected. Otherwise, taking Xanax as prescribed generally doesn't pose any problems.

A doctor can prescribe both Xanax and Suboxone.
Suboxone will not help with benzo withdrawals.
A doctor, unfortunately, can cut patients off - it's unethical, but not illegal.

If you're really worried about it, think about bringing the prescription bottle with you to your next appointment; and if it comes up in a drug test, then you'll have it with you to show that it is prescribed. You could also mention it to him then.

At this point, my opinion is that you should keep getting the Xanax prescription from your family doctor.

I hope that's helpful. Let us know.

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2012, 08:51 PM   #3
Redefining_Life
Junior Member
 
Posts: 14
Default

Thank you Nancy. The first counselor I saw said "that's ****ed up" when I told her that I've been prescribed Xanax for a long time. I suffer from PTSD, and had a great counselor that really helped me with it, but I moved cities, and need to find a new counselor where I live. I admitted to my new counselor my addiction, I had just told my mother about it, I'm excited to finally be getting help with my problem... and all my new counselor was worried about was my Xanax Rx and Suboxone withdrawals. Finding a new counselor I can talk to will be a challenge, and I originally came back to this site hoping to find counselors in my area that are educated about Maintenance. So I suppose I am not worried about it, I only take 1mg a day, but my counselor seemed really worried about it. So I came here, where people are (generally) educated, to get some opinions. Just getting my Rx filled from where I usually get it does sound like the best idea, even if it means paying for an extra appointment. I always bring my Rx bottle with me, just in case of a drug test.

Thank you for your thoughts!
Redefining_Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2012, 09:10 PM   #4
krystaalexandria
Senior Member
 
krystaalexandria's Avatar
 
Posts: 112
Default

I agree with everything Nancy said. You're not abusing Xanax, you're taking it as prescribed, and have not hid that fact from your Suboxone doctor.
krystaalexandria is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Users Say Thank You to krystaalexandria For This Useful Post:
Thank You (02-11-2012)
Unread 02-23-2012, 04:31 AM   #5
Sunny1
Senior Member
 
Posts: 355
Default

Hi,

I can tell you my experience, when I saw my suboxone Dr. I was completely honest about everything. I had taken Klonopin 3mgs daily and never had any problems with it, never increased it etc. I got kind of paranoid about taking anything b/c of my problem with opiate pills and tapered off everything, but I still wanted to take klonopin as needed and discussed it with the Sub Doctor. She told me, after lengthy discussion that it wasn't a problem. I do think this can depend, some people might have a problem across the board and aren't honest about it even with themselves. What you described sounds like medical use, you aren't increasing the dose and messing around with it.

Another thing, when I went off klonopin, I didn't have any withdrawal from it, I think b/c I wasn't addicted to it nor was I abusing it. I tapered off it b/c with benzodiazepams that is the way to go, but I felt absolutely nothing going off it.

Just be honest and open with your Doctor. I can't say for sure that every Doc is going to be great, but I believe a good Doctor will listen and consider your situation and manage it to the best of their ability. Take Care
Sunny1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-28-2012, 10:19 AM   #6
krystaalexandria
Senior Member
 
krystaalexandria's Avatar
 
Posts: 112
Default

I take 2mg xanax every time I go to the dentist, and have had a lot of work done in past few months. Every month when I go to my sub doctor, I let them know that I took it, and how many times since the last visit. The dr. is starting to show concern, because he does not want me to become dependent or addicted to xanax, but I still disclose every instance that I take it. He told me when I am finished with my dental work to let them know because he wants to test me for xanax at that time. He did not tell me not to take it, just wants to make sure I don't take it when I don't need it.
krystaalexandria is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-04-2012, 01:35 PM   #7
Redefining_Life
Junior Member
 
Posts: 14
Default

Update: After a long and confusing couple of days (neither my family doctor originally Rxing the Xanax nor my Suboxone Dr wanted to help me ) my Sub doctor switched me to Klonopin, and it has been working great. My suggestion to anyone with a similar problem: work with your doctor, talk about your options, and have patience because they can be putting their career at risk by prescribing Suboxone and Benzos. Stay honest and explain that you are really trying to do the right thing.
Redefining_Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-04-2012, 06:29 PM   #8
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 22,408
Default

Hi Redefining life, I'm glad that you were persistent and your Suboxone doctor finally helped you out and you're doing better!

Thanks for updating us!

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #9
brokenwing
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Default

I am having the same problem now. My psychiatrist went out of business or moved?? My suboxone Dr. is very rude and not understanding at all. His clinic is the only one I could find that took my insurance. But I have bipolar and panick attacks/anxiety and my sub Dr. said that only a psychiatrist can prescribe my klonopins!! I am also on depakote and effexor. But my sub doc is not leniant, acts like he really don't care at all! I started college last semester because my psychiatrist finally got me on the right meds! Now my problem is finding a psychiatrist that will even see me. As soon as I tell them I am in a suboxone program they say they have a policy to not prescribe any klonopins. I have tried talking with my sub Dr. and he just acts like he could care less. And the counselor my sub Dr. sends me to, she is like well if it gets bad enough just go to the hospital.. I am a full time student! I can't afford to be on the mental ward AGAIN! It's like I finally reached out for help with my addiction with opoids(percocets)and finally be honest with Dr's and it just makes me want to quit the system!! I live in kentucky. Does anyone know of a suboxone Dr. that takes insurance around lexington, louisville, etc that would actually try to work with me? Or a psychiatrist who would work with me? In need of help asap!!
brokenwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-16-2012, 05:16 PM   #10
gotoffmdone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,215
Default

Some Sub Drs are against prescribing benzos themselves but often times do not have a problem when a patient has been taking it when prescribed by another Dr even before getting on Sub.

Then there are those Sub Drs who will make you stop taking Xanax but he will not kick you off the program. I would think you would have some type of recourse if he did but probably not. In any case a Dr practicing in the field of addiction medicine or even dabbling in it, as a lot of Sub Drs are just doing, would know better than to have you stop benzos cold turkey. That is dangerouus and would IMO amount to malpractice.

Then there is the type of Dr like I have. I have no anxiety problems but one of the best muscle relaxers on the planet was used for many years until some of the newer ones came out. It is a benzo and is as old as Moses. It is called Valium. My Sub Dr actually prescribes me Valium himself each month to help with my back pain. It helps only to relax the muscles in my neck or shoulder after umpiring ballgames all day. I puposely do not take it one or more weeks out of every month as I do not want to have to deal with getting off that stuff. Just last month my Dr added a pill to my Sub to help with pain. He offered it last year but I refused. But after a trip to Nashville and back(6 hr drive) and umpiring 6 games all in the same day I was in pain. I mentioned the pill he offered me last year and asked him if Sub would not block its effect. He assured me he wouldn't. Then he sent in to my pharmacy a script for 60 Tramadol for the month. I had heard of the drug but had never taken it. Taking it with 2400mgs of Ibuprofen and a Sub just before time to umpire last weekend did not stop my pain but it did prolong it from coming on with a vengeance.

I have gone to two different Sub Drs and they both had no problem themselves with giving me benzos. The first one was Restoril(temazepam) for sleep and my present Dr gives me Valium and would go up in quantitity if I asked. But like Sub I use that drug for a specific purpose and when the drug is not needed I do not take it. I know the horror stories from opiate but only have heard of the ones from getting off benzos. This Tramadol thing has be confused a bit. I was under the impression that Tramadol is what has brought some people to the Sub Dr. In Tennessee, which is a fairly strict state, Tramadol is not even considered a controlled drug like it is in other states. That is why I wasn't handed a script and it could be sent in electronically. According to my pharmacist, that is.

Back to your Xanax use. Which of the above type of Sub Drs you get is a crap shoot. I am certain some or most just take your contact info and do not read the rest of the stuff they ask. Why would they bother. They have their own rules anyway. Don't wory about getting kicked off the program because you are taking Xanax. Worst case scenerio he will give you an opportunity to get off of them and insist on such. Best case scenerio he will leave what goes on between you and your family Dr alone.

wayne
gotoffmdone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-16-2012, 06:44 PM   #11
Renee01
Member
 
Posts: 71
Default

Wayne, I'm so surprised that Tramadol helped with your pain while on subs. From what I've learned, it is a mild opiate. My Dr. (not sub Dr) put me on them because they're supposed to be less additive than vicodin, but who knows. I hated them, made my stomach hurt, heart race, etc. I believe they are trying to market them as a "controlled substance" as well. Just like soma is now. Anyhow, if it is working, that is great, just surprised because of the opiate blocker in the subs. So much conflicting information out there it's hard to stay ahead! All the best!
Renee01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-16-2012, 10:07 PM   #12
gotoffmdone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,215
Default

Nothing really helps my pain. My only hope is to be able to prolong its coming on strong. If I wait until I am in severe pain nothing outside of very strong narcotics at very high doses help.

But I have noticed that if I take 2400 to 3200mgs of Motrin, a Sub about an hour prior to umpiring and then a couple more 800mg Motrin tablets about two hours later, then instead of my back hurting so badly that I have to quit umpiring after the third or fourth game, I may be able to umpire 10 games with not so severe pain that I have to quit. This past weekend I took the meds prior to umpiring and after 10 hours on my feet I could have umpired some more but we were finished on my field.

So the key for me is to not wait until I am in sever pain before I do something about it. My problem is not muscular however the pain causes the surrounding back and neck muscles to spasm and tighten to the point the feel as hard as a bone. Since my problem is spine related, taking a break once the pain comes on strong does no good whatsoever and can actually make me feel worse. My back hurts sitting or standing just in different areas and taking a break just makes it harder to get back up and umpire. After umpiring then driving home the hardest thing of all is to get out of the car once I get home.

So nothing I am taking really helps my pain, I take things in an attempt to prolong it. But when it hurts it hurts. Four hundred mgs of Methadone per day has been the best at masking the pain. It wasn't until I traded the Methadone for Sub in 2006 that I even knew I had back trouble.

As far as the Tramadol goes I don't think it had any synergistic effect with the Motrin but it could have. One weekend doesn't make a very good sample. I do know this. Once my back did start hurting the Tramadol, Sub nor Motrin has any effect. Lyinng down is the only relief I get and that takes about 30 minutes. Its a shame that 30 minutes worth of surgery could solve this but no insurance. But as time goes on I have no doubt that my back is getting worse and it would take more than 30 minutes of surgery to repair any further damage I am doing.

I had never taken Tramadol until a week ago. Not sure why if it is an opioid the Sub does not block it. That is unless it too is a partial agonist and attaches, or fits into, to the same receptor as Sub.

wayne
gotoffmdone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #13
Renee01
Member
 
Posts: 71
Default

I'm so sorry you have to live with back pain. You made me shutter when you talked about getting out of your car. My husband is in constant pain as well, and there are times when he is getting out of the car and will literally yell out in pain. So not fun!!
It's crazy what opioids do to our minds. When you mentioned you didn't notice you even had a back problem until you discontinued the methadone...many injurys have taken place because of script narcotics and not being able to "feel" completely. This can lead to further damage. It sounds like you have a good handle on what is working for you, and if the trams are working...that is great!! All the best~
Renee01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-17-2012, 04:14 AM   #14
gotoffmdone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,215
Default

Thank you. Not sure the Trams are working. I believe taking all that Motrin prior to doing any activity is the drug that helps. I know for a fact that I can take a Sub(8mgs) minus the Motrin and it doesn't help prolong my pain at all. Same with Tramadol I am sure. But last weekend I took one Tramadol, one Sub and the Motrin. My back still hurt but I was able to umpire more games than had I taken either the Sub or Tramadol alone, or together. I am 99.99999 percent sure the thing that prolongs my pain is the Motrin. But I cannot get relief taking one 800mg Motrin 3-4 times a day. That first dose has to be the daily max amount. I only take it on weekends when umpiring. NSAIDs like Motrin can be hard on the kidneys especially taking high doses all at once.

Last Saturday was my first experience with Tramadol. Not sure how it would work by itself but I have a pretty good idea given time release Morphine doesn't help. The key is to take whatever helps prior to hurting. Once the pain come on its there to stay. The motion of twisting to the right in the shower hurts and I am very limited in that motion. Just to sweep the kitchen is a motion that hurts my back. I have to post things on the computer one paragraph at a time then take a break. That is when my back hurts where I have no cartiledge between L4-L5. It is bone on bone.

The best way I can describe my back pain is to imagine someone has just cut your back open to expose your spine. And now they are now taking a heavy grade piece of sandpaper and rubbing it up and down on your spine with significant pressure. That's the first ting that comes to mind. My right leg is numb to the touch from the hip to the knee, yet burns at the same time. Numbness down any portion of a person's leg is often an indicator neurosurgeons use to determine the use of conservative tx or surgery. That and the MRI from 2008 indicated surgey was needed to fix my problem. At that time I was told that a 45 minute procedure to put in a couple screws in my back was the answer. I can only imagine what the MRI looks like 4 years and significantly greater pain later.

wayne

wayne
gotoffmdone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-17-2012, 03:06 PM   #15
Renee01
Member
 
Posts: 71
Default

Your description of the pain sounds awful! I've also heard that when it comes to back surgery, it's a 50/50 toss up as to it getting better. In fact, some cases come out worse. I know its bad, but I try to remember that we are right where we're supposed to be in life, so maybe it's a good thing you aren't having the surgery? Anyhow, keep managing your pain the way you are and try to stay positive. It can be hard sometimes, that's why I find myself on here throughout the day. Have a great weekend!!
Renee01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-22-2012, 12:14 AM   #16
hatmaker510
Member
 
Posts: 31
Default

I don't know a tremendous amount of info about it (probably Nancy does), but I Tramadol isn't a typical opiate. Yes, some people get addicted to it and go into sub therapy for treatment. It's my understanding that for that to happen, the person must have a certain enzyme (to become addicted). For example, tramadol never did a thing for me...no high and no pain relief. But my cousin got hooked on them and entered treatment for her addiction.

I have also heard that it's the only pain med that can be taken with sub.

Although it's not a "regular" opiate, it metabolizes as one in a way I cannot explain, therefore sub treatment does work for a tramadol addiction. Please forgive my inability to elaborate.

Lastly, Tramadol also has an effect on one's serotonin levels, so be careful taking it if you're on any other serotonin meds, like an SSRI or even an OTC supplement like St. John's Wart.

Again, sorry I can't be more specific. I hope this gives you some extra info.
hatmaker510 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-22-2012, 06:40 AM   #17
gotoffmdone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,215
Default

I cannot believe Tramadol is a Class IV drug anymore than I can believe Sub is a Class III.

Drugs are supposedly classified based on their potential for abuse as opposed to their pain relieving ability. If that is the case, Hydrocodone should not be classified the same as Suboxone(both are Class III).

All things being relative, if Tramadol is a Class IV and Sub a Class III, then Hydrocodone and Oxycodone should be a Class 0, since the lower the number the more its controlled.

For those drugs that have been deemed to have no medical use they should have no designation. Pot according to the Feds is a Class I drug.

Not being a Pot smoker I can't elaborate on it too much. I have heard my whole life it is "gateway drug". I don't understand how a drug that supposedly leads to harder drugs is classified as being more dangerous than the drugs taken once you get inside the gate. Pot is a Class I at the federal level while Morphine and even Cocaine are Class II's.

I'm not even sure what the heck I am posting this for. I am under the influence of no sleep.

wayne
gotoffmdone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-22-2012, 08:30 AM   #18
NancyB
Administrator
 
Posts: 22,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatmaker510 View Post
I don't know a tremendous amount of info about it (probably Nancy does), but I Tramadol isn't a typical opiate. Yes, some people get addicted to it and go into sub therapy for treatment. It's my understanding that for that to happen, the person must have a certain enzyme (to become addicted). For example, tramadol never did a thing for me...no high and no pain relief. But my cousin got hooked on them and entered treatment for her addiction.

I have also heard that it's the only pain med that can be taken with sub.

Although it's not a "regular" opiate, it metabolizes as one in a way I cannot explain, therefore sub treatment does work for a tramadol addiction. Please forgive my inability to elaborate.

Lastly, Tramadol also has an effect on one's serotonin levels, so be careful taking it if you're on any other serotonin meds, like an SSRI or even an OTC supplement like St. John's Wart.

Again, sorry I can't be more specific. I hope this gives you some extra info.
Hi hatmaker510, tramadol is sort of an enigma by itself and with Suboxone. Tramadol 'acts' like an opiate, but really isn't one - although it does bind to the mu receptors (opioid). It also acts like an SSRI/SSNRI anti-depressant but isn't really one. Because it's not an 'opioid', it was marketed as non-narcotic and non-addictive; but as we've seen, people enter Suboxone treatment because of addictions to it. cferd mentioned the enzyme before here:
Thread: http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=24643
Post: http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...97&postcount=9

This link, in the Metabolism section, has alot of information about the liver enzyme.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/ultram.html
One thing that stuck out was:
"Approximately 7% of the population has reduced activity of the CYP2D6 isoenzyme of cytochrome P-450. These individuals are "poor metabolizers" of debrisoquine, dextromethorphan, tricyclic antidepressants, among other drugs. Based on a population PK analysis of Phase I studies in healthy subjects, concentrations of tramadol were approximately 20% higher in "poor metabolizers" versus "extensive metabolizers", while M1 concentrations were 40% lower."

So it looks like that enzyme has a lot to do with the concentrations that each person has of the medication and is why the medication works for some and not others. And if it does work, some people may become addicted to it.

As far as taking it with Suboxone, there are a few people here who got some pain relief and others who got zero relief. I wonder if it all goes back to that enzyme?

Not sure that helped at all... lol

Nancy
__________________
Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
NancyB is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #19
gotoffmdone
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,215
Default

I have noticed to some small degree that Sub and Tramdol work best taken in conjunction with one another. Each by themselves gives me about as much pain relief as a glass of water.

wayne
gotoffmdone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-06-2012, 01:44 AM   #20
Renee01
Member
 
Posts: 71
Default

gotoffmdone, how are you? Haven't seen you in awhile and wanted to check in on you and see how the meds are working for your back pain? Hope you're doing well!!!
Renee01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #21
Irishman1984
Junior Member
 
Posts: 1
Default BEWARE!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotoffmdone View Post
I have noticed to some small degree that Sub and Tramdol work best taken in conjunction with one another. Each by themselves gives me about as much pain relief as a glass of water.

wayne
Iknow that this post from you is more than a few months old, however after reading it I felt I should throw a cautionary tale your way. I was active duty military in the U.S.A.F. for 5 years. During that time I was injured, many times. I was always in a transitional state in so much as I was always recovering from a surgery or was gearing up for another one. That is just the way it was for me the last 14 months I was active duty. I was a Fireman, and I was always anxious to get back on the rig and outta' dispatch lol...I had to have a clear mind and the best way I thought would be is to take something for my pain that wasn't a narcotic, but my "pain receptors" in my brain wouldnt know the difference. Well, my brain did know the difference as it turned out. by my 3rd dose for the 1st day I began taking Tramadol, I had a massive seizure. And by massive I mean that I seized so hard, I dislocated both arms and broke the humorus bone in my left shoulder. Not to mention the damage that I did to my rotater cuffs. I have had 3 reconstructive operations on my shoulders since and have recently agreed to a 4th. The final step before total joint replacement I'm told. There is tons of info online about tramadol and seizure links. The drug lowers your natural threshold for your mind to withstand seizures. It's a "synthetic".....In short, taking tramadol ruined my life. I was discharged from the service (honorably, of course) and with a medical disability percentage. But I'm no longer a firefighter which is all I wanted to be since I was ten years old. The story gets better still. An ortho doctor a year later gave me ultram post-op. I didn't know that Ultram is the generic for Tramadol so naturally after I ingested it, I got the same result as before. It's a very DANGEROUS drug to be taking with any regularity. Be careful with it. Be very careful............
Irishman1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
One User Says Thank You to Irishman1984 For This Useful Post:
Thank You (02-17-2013)
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2014 Addiction Survivors