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Unread 04-21-2011, 10:35 PM   #1
Jack123
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Default Urine Tests & Benzos

Hi Folks,

I'd like to know if anyone knows for sure, what doc's can see on the UA test Sub docs use? I'm really only concerned about 1 thing. I have a genuine anxiety disorder. Occasionally, and pretty rarely, I use 0.5 mg of Ativan or Xanax. I don't do it often because I don't want to become Benzo dependent. It's bad enough I'm opiate dependent. I have never been addicted to Benzos. What's more, I have never even experienced a high from Benzos. Not even from Valium. If I'm feeling anxious they make the anxiety go away. If I'm not anxious I feel nothing. With the 1 possible exception that Xanax will make me sleepy whether I have anxiety of not. But my Sub doc doesn't believe me. He absolutely, will not give me Xanax. He gave me a very small Ativan script and he did that grudgingly. But I really will need some Xanax some where down the line. His latest thing is I can't take anything he doesn't give me. If he insists on this, I am going to need a new Sub doc. But I can't do it right now. I have some Xanax left over from the last script I received at Thanksgiving. But I can't use them, because he didn't give them to me. Nevertheless, if the need becomes great enough, I will use them. I'm going to remind him I didn't come to him seeking treatment for opiate addiction. I went to him seeking Bupe for Opiate dependency, brought about due to pain. I will remind him of this, but I don't expect it to matter to him. And people say I'm thickheaded. No more so than this guy is.

So when he does the UA test, is it going to just show Benzos, or will it be specific for which ones? Anyone know?

Also, when it shows positive for Benzos, will it show how much is in me? I'm hoping it will show something that he can then know I'm not abusing them.

If this doc will maintain an open mind, I will be able to win his trust after some amount of time goes by. But if he takes a dogmatic attitude towards me, I am going to need a new doc. This is another example of the stigmas we all have to live with. It seems we're all guilty until proven innocent. However, even that is not so bad. For too many people, including docs, we can never be proven innocent. I'm afraid he is 1 of these.
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Unread 04-22-2011, 07:14 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Jack, not every doctor does UA tests as it is not a requirement. You'd have to find out what type of test your doctor uses. Does he do a dipstick test in office or is it sent out to a lab?

Nancy
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Unread 04-22-2011, 09:48 AM   #3
Jack123
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Hi Nancy,

I don't know exactly what kind of test he does. I was hoping there was a standard test almost all Sub docs were using. All I know is he said that now Medicare pays for it. I don't know if that's a clue or not. If it did show specific Benzos, is there anyway of knowing how long it would show them? If it's only a matter of several days or something like that, I can just make sure I don't use Xanax for those days prior to going there. He gave me Ativan, so he should expect it to be positive for Benzos. During my last visit he said his test didn't show individual Benzos. But I don't believe him.
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Unread 04-22-2011, 12:15 PM   #4
Diane2011
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Hi Jack123,
I can't really help you about the specific part of the test, but I sure can relate to Anxiety Disorder (Or Attacks). They are very real and they S***! On my first visit a couple months ago I came up "dirty" for Benzos because I took a Vallium during my w/d's. He did not know what I took, just a benzo. He asked and I told him the truth.
Have you had any succuss with other meds. for Panic? The reason I ask is after a GOOD 20 years I finally found a great drug for Anti-Anxiety - Zyprexa. It is NOT an anti-depressant. Every doctor for years kept putting me on them and I kept telling them it was Anxiety! Not depression!
I am now taking the Zyprexa, 5mg Vallium, and my Sub. I feel great and hope you can get the help you need.
This is a real proplem and I feel for you. Are the Ativans helping? Hopefully you can gain his trust and get the Anxiety under control.
Diane
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Unread 04-22-2011, 02:28 PM   #5
gotoffmdone
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My guess is most Drs do what is called a drug screen, which is basically a dip test done in their office. That way, if there's a problem, they can confront the person at that very time to ask questions and probe for answers to clear things up. I would very much think they would screen for benzos. They usually entail screening for THC, Amphetamines, Cocaine and the biggy, opiates, with Sub being specifically tested for so as to distinguish it from all the other usual opiate suspects. Plus, I am not sure if Sub even shows up on a routine opiate panel. It has to be specifically screened for from what I have been hearing. I believe that is the case in the lab testing phase as well.

Not only do they not want to see the presence of other opiates besides Sub, they are more concerned about NOT seeing the presence of Sub at all. My Dr would kick a person out of tx for not having Sub in his system a lot faster than he would had the person tested positive for a full agonist. No Sub would imply diversion to them.

Screens are just that. They do not distinguish one benzo or opiate from another. Drug testing is more specific, expensive and time consuming than drug screens but they can distinguish between different drugs of similar molecular structure that screens for multiple drugs at once are not always designed to do.

As examples, with regard to benzos they can separate out the use of Xanax from Ativan, and in the case of opiates, hydrocodone from oxycodone. But they have to specifically be testing for whatever substance they are looking for through the use of control or referrence samples.

If your Dr does do a screen and benzos do screen as positive, I would think the Ativan he prescribes you would make that a non issue.
When an undesired positive results on a screen shows up, is when that same sample is then sent to a lab for confirmation through drug testing. My experience has been that, in the case of a positive screen, the sample in question is always sent to the lab especially when the patient denies use and delcares there must be a false positive. If a patient comes clean and admits to using whatever it is that brought things into question, there is no real need to send the sample to the lab. The only reason I could think of an exception to this would be to test for quantitative purposes. To reveal at just what level of the drug/s the person has in their system.

When I was going to a Methadone clinic, I had so many false positives for benzos that my pee pee was always sent to a lab for teating. It turned out to be the benedryl I was taking that was the cause. The clinic finally quit testing because they had to eat the cost for all false positives.

wayne

Last edited by gotoffmdone; 04-22-2011 at 02:49 PM..
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Unread 04-22-2011, 05:10 PM   #6
bizzby45
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sub doesnt show up on routine tests, it has to be specifically tested for. as for the benzos: 1: you dont want to get dependent on them because the w/d's suck sooooo bad and you can die from them. 2: your doc most likely tests for them, i know that benzos dont stay in your system for more then a week but i dont know if there is any test that can pick up even a small amount still left in your system. my doctor is the same as yours but since i got off the zanax my anxiety has gotten better. there have been times where i have wanted to take a zan but for its not worth losing my sub doctor over that ,your case is different but if it ends up where you cant take zanax or cant find a new doc you might want to try counseling/ways to deal with anxiety without meds. i know that znanax just masks your anxiety and it ends up just building up and getting worse.
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Unread 04-22-2011, 09:44 PM   #7
gotoffmdone
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Some benzos are shorter acting than others and have less halflives. In terms of Valium, in paricular, my PCP Dr gave it to me as a muscle relaxer for my back pain issues. It is a good muscle relaxer and I will not take full agonsit opiates.

But she told me that the benzo, Valium(diazepam), had a halflife of 96 hours and that it took 4 halflives(which is 16 days) for it to get out of your system. Has anyone else heard of that and would that not depend on the amount taken.

I do not take it on a daily basis, sometimes waiting as long as two weeks in between, because the wds from benzos, unlike opiates, can kill you. Just like alcohol wds can. These opiate wds make you feel as though you want to die whereas the benzo wds could make that a reality. That's why in most detox situations the Drs will cold turkey a person off opiates, giving them comfort meds and what not. But when it comes to benzos cold turkeying is out of the question and they often switch the patient over to a different benzo than they were taking, then ween them from there. Benzos and barbiturates wds are not to be ignored and taken lightly. Even showing up at an ER in benzo wds will likely get you a script. That's hardly ever the case when a person shows up an an ER in some form of opiate wds.

wayne
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Unread 04-22-2011, 10:55 PM   #8
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I am going with Bizzby45. My doctor is just like yours, they receive training to prescribe Sub and are told that Benzo's do not mix well with it, even in small doses. I argued that point and he was insistent that I could possibly die from mixing them.

So I too have to deal with not taking any and to tell the truth, I'm okay. Still a little antsy, but that's my nature.

Try to let the Sub do it's job, you'll be surprised how well it works w/o taking a Benzo. And do you really want to change doctors just to have a drug that doesn't mix well with your primary drug? It's obvious your doctor cares about your health. Try to see it from their point of view.

I hope it works out no matter which way you decide to go.
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Unread 04-24-2011, 01:06 PM   #9
Jack123
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Hi Folks,

Thanks for answering. I didn't know you did. The email notification didn't work on this thread.

I'm really never going to be taking anything else but the occasional Benzo. I know this because I was on Sub 5 years once. One thing I like about Sub is it takes anyway my feeling of needing something. That's a symptom I acquaint with the disease. In me, it stems back to not feeling right. But Sub makes me feel right with myself, and I don't feel a need for anything else. Except the occasional Benzo which I use for anxiety. I know this is real because when I take the Benzo the anxiety goes away. Ativan will usually work on anxiety just as well as Xanax. What Ativan won't help me do is to sleep. That's why I want Xanax. It's good to know the standard drug screen won't differentiate between the Benzos. However, first I have to get some. I no longer have connections. Another thing is he knows fully well that Sub mixes with Benzos, especially when a person already uses a Benzo. I say this because last month, the woman that went in after me came out very quickly and I was still there. She laid her scripts on the counter right in front of me. There it was. One was for Subutex and the other for Valium. He's just getting weird on me. If he keeps it up or he gets worse I have to leave. We'll see.

So before I close this I want to wish a Happy Easter to all who celebrate it. The weather man had predicted rain for today. But where I am it's warm and the Sun is shinning. That's great. I clearly remember when I was much younger how all the girls and women in the family all wore brightly colored, new Spring dresses on Easter. I used to love that. But when the weather was foul they couldn't do it, and that ruined it for everyone. Where I am today, is the kind of day when everyone was happy.

Happy Easter
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Unread 05-06-2011, 04:43 PM   #10
alanw
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My doc said it just shows up as "benzos," so you should be good. And whats he going to do if ur pisitive??! Fire you lol. He makes $$$ regardless of what you put in ur body. Goodluck
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