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Unread 11-29-2010, 02:30 PM   #1
benn11
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Default tramadol

Today I saw my second doctor, (the one that does not prescribe the suboxone) and I told him about my back pain. He ended up giving me a script to tramadol and prescription strength naproxen. I did not mention to him that I was on suboxone, although he knows i have had problems with opiod dependence because my profile was right there on the computer. I did not ask for tramadol but I did not deny it either. I remember I took it once and didnt care for it that much. I was wondering what you guys thought? Will it even work since im on suboxone? I did some research on the internet and it doesnt give a clear answer it just says it can work. Im not sure what to do with it. Feedback would be very helpful. thanks.
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Unread 11-29-2010, 02:42 PM   #2
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It will work for pain while on the Sub, but even tho it's not considered an opiate, it has all the sa,e properties and you can become just as addicted to it as anything else. I myself was addicted to it for over 3 years! If you do decide to take it, please be very careful!
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Unread 11-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #3
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Why go to a doctor and get a script without informing them of your current meds? That's the sort of behavior that needs changing!
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Unread 11-29-2010, 03:39 PM   #4
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Hi benn11, since tramadol works on the same mu opioid receptors as percocet, hydro, etc., I'm not too sure it would do much for your pain because, theoretically it should be blocked by the buprenorphine. But it could depend on the person and the dose of each the bupe and the tramadol. If it's a really dose of bupe, then there could be some pain relief, otherwise others have said that it doesn't help at all - the blocking of the buprenorphine.

Have you tried to see if the naproxen alone helps? Or have you tried breaking up your Suboxone dose into smaller doses every 4 to 6 hours to take advantage of any opioid properties?

Just a couple of thoughts.

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Unread 11-29-2010, 05:14 PM   #5
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I guess I should chime in

I'm on Tramadol for pain POST suboxone. It helped but I think aspirin and tylenlol work near as well. I only take one perhaps two a day. I do get times of unrelenting pain so I'd take two at a time when that happens. I think I used two pills maybe twice or three times.

A point about tramadol, it may not be the "Mu" activity that works on pain. There is a effect on brain "transmitters" beyound opioid recepters. It has perhaps antidepressant activities.

Just had to put that in.

Good luck

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Unread 11-29-2010, 07:15 PM   #6
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This tramadol thing is screwy. I had a large molar pulled this am, made sure I doubled my sub dosage (as per docs advice)and took it about every 5 hr. I was given tramadol by the oral surgeon who described tramadol as semi-synthetic agonist??? Anyway , with the temporary increase in subs I was painless and felt great. I also took 600 mg of ibuprofen which probably helped. No need for the tramadol, this is already too much confusion! I don't know if this helps anyone but it's what happened. Willard
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Unread 11-29-2010, 07:27 PM   #7
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This should help to clear a couple of things up about tramadol:
http://pain.emedtv.com/tramadol/how-...adol-work.html

Tramadol hydrochloride ( Ultram®) is a prescription medication used to treat moderate to moderately severe pain in adults. It is classified as a centrally acting opioid analgesic. This means that tramadol works in the central nervous system (the brain and spinal cord), acts much like morphine in the body, and relieves pain. Much like morphine, tramadol binds to certain opioid receptors in the body known as μ ("mu") receptors.

Tramadol also works in a similar manner as some antidepressant medications by inhibiting the reuptake of certain brain chemicals (serotonin and norepinephrine). These are two of several chemicals used to send messages from one nerve cell to another. As a message travels down a nerve, it causes the end of the cell to release serotonin or norepinephrine. The serotonin or norepinephrine enters the gap between the first nerve cell and the one next to it. When enough serotonin or norepinephrine reaches the second nerve cell, it activates receptors on the cell and the message continues on its way. The first cell then quickly absorbs any serotonin or norepinephrine that remains in the gap between cells. This is called "reuptake."



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Unread 11-30-2010, 06:09 PM   #8
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Hi benn11! Glad to meet you.

I was given Tramadol for back pain and ended up going back out into active heroin use. This was years ago but I'll not forget.
So like tlg said, it can cause problems, especially for anyone who prefers opiates as their drug of choice.

Take care my friend, and consider talking over with your Doc next time.

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Unread 11-30-2010, 08:31 PM   #9
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I'm with Toms,

Didn't you make an agreement with your Sub doctor to not visit other physicians and stick with one pharmacy? Mine did.

You're on a dangerous road....

Tom L.
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Unread 11-30-2010, 08:46 PM   #10
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Not all doctors are PCP's (mine is my psychiatrist so therefore doesn't treat me for anything besides my addiction and mental health)

I do agree that doctors who are treating you for anything need to know about the medications you are on, not only to prevent you from being put on something that could trigger your addiction, but also for your own safety to be sure not to be scripting out meds that shouldn't be taken together.

With that said, I know it's not the easiest thing to come out and do all the time. I had anxiety all day when I first started seeing my new doctor about talking about my medication for addiction in fear of being judged. Everything turned out ok, but it's an important thing to at least let doctors who may be scripting out meds know about ur current meds and any health problems!
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Unread 12-02-2010, 10:00 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by benn11 View Post
Today I saw my second doctor, (the one that does not prescribe the suboxone) and I told him about my back pain. He ended up giving me a script to tramadol and prescription strength naproxen. I did not mention to him that I was on suboxone, although he knows i have had problems with opiod dependence because my profile was right there on the computer. I did not ask for tramadol but I did not deny it either. I remember I took it once and didnt care for it that much. I was wondering what you guys thought? Will it even work since im on suboxone? I did some research on the internet and it doesnt give a clear answer it just says it can work. Im not sure what to do with it. Feedback would be very helpful. thanks.
Heres my feedback.....dont do it. There is a really good non narcotic pain medicine called Mobic...check that out with your doctor instead.
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Unread 12-03-2010, 01:00 PM   #12
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I recently had an experience much like this and my advice is also don't do it, get rid of the tramadol if you have already filled the script and if not do not fill it at all.

My experience...

I went to my doctor with some pain problems about a month ago. I had tried to divide up my sub dose to help with the pain and though it took the edge off I was still in agony. I told him of my opiate addiction and that I was on subutex and was looking for something non-narcotic to help with my pain. He prescribed me tramadol and assured me that it would not be blocked by the sub and that is was not an addicting substance, on the second count he was very wrong.

I personally remembered taking tramadol once before a couple years ago when I hurt my back. At the time it gave me very little relief and I remember feeling no "high" from the medication. So with that experience in my mind I believed my doctor and began taking the tramadol. Let me tell you what I noted and have since found others who experienced the same thing...

1. Sub doesn't block the effect of tramadol at all.
2. Being on sub somehow enhances the tramadol and therefore the two together feel very much like taking a typical opiate. Which introduces a very slippery slope.

It did not take me long at all to go from taking the tramadol for my pain to taking it to achieve that opiate feeling!! Thankfully within a few days, I realized what I was truly doing and stopped taking the tramadol and got rid of any remaining pills. Even with the short period of time I took them I felt an adjustment period afterwards that caused me to temporarily raise my sub dose to counteract stopping the tramadol. I am now back to my normal dose of subutex and am more aware of how careful I need to be with this sneaky disease. I also called my doctor and informed him that despite what he thought, tramadol can be an addicting drug.

So, please, don't take them. It could possibly throw off your current recovery and nothing is worth that! I also agree with the others who have posted, though your intent may not have been to deceive your doctor and admitting that you are on suboxone can be difficult, it is always in your best interest to disclose all medications you are taking to your doctor. Not only from an addiction standpoint, but even more so from a medical standpoint as you never know what drug interactions can occur if your doctor isn't aware of your current prescriptions.

I hope you are feeling better soon and the pain subsides as much as is possible!!
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Unread 12-07-2010, 04:53 PM   #13
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Hi,
thank you for the advice everyone. I ended up taking a few of them, but found no relief and felt no different at all. So I guess it was blocked by the sub or it just didnt work for me. Either way Im just sticking with ibuprofen and the naprexon, and some tiger balm. I have heard that it does work and doesnt on here while on sub, but my experience has been it hasnt. ive taken about 3 since I was prescribed it. Also, someone said in their reply to split the sub up into multiple doses during the day. Is that ok to do? I take the 8mg/2mg film once daily. So would I just cut in in four or three pieces? thanks. I also ended up contacting that doctor and telling him I was on suboxone on the phone. He said only a part of the tramadol would work while on the sub too, so I guess I will take his word for it. thanks again for listening.
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Unread 12-07-2010, 05:01 PM   #14
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benn11~
When using the Sub for pain, it's been found that taking smaller doses (about 2mgs) multiple times a day (every 4-6hrs) will work best. Not everyone feels it works for their pain, I have had great luck taking it for my lower back pain. So you could cut up your 8mg strip into 4 pieces and take it every 4-6hrs. You may want to speak with your Sub doctor about it before doing so tho. IMO, it's good to have an open relationship with your Sub doctor, I have always called mine to let her know this is what's going on, and I am gonna try doing this...but not all people have that kinda relationship with their doctor, or feel confident that they will agree. Just wanted to give you my opinion on that since you may be adjusting the way you're yaking your dose! Hope it helps, and hope you start to feel better soon!
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Unread 12-08-2010, 09:00 AM   #15
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I totally agree with mlk 2900~~~do not start tramadol! I had battled with pain medication (always losing) for 25+ years, but went without the opiate meds for periods of time of differing lengths; the cravings were what brought me to my knees each time. BUT....when I discovered I could buy Tramadol with total ease on the Internet!~~~this was my complete come-down!! I took Tramadol any time, any place because I COULD. Finally, 15 months ago, I shook myself out of a tram-haze, crying and praying, got my appt. with my Suboxone MD, went through withdrawal enough to allow the Sub to work---and have never looked back. Nor have I ever been happier or more relieved. Tramadol is poisonous, insidious and totally hazardous to one's health and anyone who says it's non-addicting is talking out their rear ends. I am still getting calls from the company who sold me the Trams, begging me to re-order. I tell them the above. Not that it makes any difference but it makes ME feel better!

That being said.....I am most definitely worried about what to do regarding future pain, should I have dental surgery or surgery on my body in the hospital or break a bone, etc. WHAT SHOULD I DO? What should I say to a doctor regarding my being on Suboxone? Do we on Sub have to suffer b/c we cannot take ANY opiates for pain???

These questions have bothered me since I have been on Suboxone, but I keep forgetting to mention them to my Sub MD, since we generally talk about my having PTSD from taking care of my husband (a Vietnam vet who has PTSD)! I didn't mean to horn in on your question----I wanted to warn you away from Tramadol. But it does bring up the possibility of needing pain relief desperately in the future, if it should happen.

Thank you, everyone!
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Unread 12-08-2010, 11:20 AM   #16
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[B][COLOR=blue]
That being said.....I am most definitely worried about what to do regarding future pain, should I have dental surgery or surgery on my body in the hospital or break a bone, etc. WHAT SHOULD I DO? What should I say to a doctor regarding my being on Suboxone? Do we on Sub have to suffer b/c we cannot take ANY opiates for pain???

These questions have bothered me since I have been on Suboxone, but I keep forgetting to mention them to my Sub MD, since we generally talk about my having PTSD from taking care of my husband (a Vietnam vet who has PTSD)! I didn't mean to horn in on your question----I wanted to warn you away from Tramadol. But it does bring up the possibility of needing pain relief desperately in the future, if it should happen.

Thank you, everyone!
Hi jekmimi, this link has a bunch of information on Suboxone and pain:
http://naabt.org/emergency/

But please do mention your concerns to your Suboxone doctor, so you can at least relieve the anxiety surrounding it.

Nancy
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Unread 12-10-2010, 06:26 PM   #17
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I called my doctor the other day and asked him about splitting up the sub for pain, however he did not agree. He asked who told me to do that and I said it was recommended by this website. He again said to ask a doctor how to deal with pain not drug addicts. I found that very offensive. What is also frustrating is he is a D.O. so he is into the whole alternative medicine thing, and is pretty against prescription drugs. He wants me to get this shot 3-4 times that costs 200$ per shot. I told him I dont have the money but he doesnt seem to care. I am really hoping to switch over to another doctor soon for my suboxone. I am wondering if I should just try splitting my dose up during the day anyways? Feedback?
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Unread 12-11-2010, 07:26 AM   #18
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Hi benn11, wow, that was very offensive! I really do hope you find another doctor and soon! You need a doctor who will work with you and listen to you and maybe help you find suitable alternatives.

Here is something about pain from doctors:

http://pcssb.org/wp-content/uploads/...e-for-pain.pdf

3. Sublingual formulations of buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone may provide mild analgesia in opioid-dependent (addicted) individuals with acute and chronic pain
a. Dividing the dose of buprenorphine SL and buprenorphine/naloxone SL to twice, or three, times a day may impart more consistent analgesia effect than single daily doses


In my opinion, it couldn't hurt to see if smaller doses every four to six hours help. What is your current daily dose?

But please, find another doctor you can work with.

Nancy
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Unread 12-11-2010, 11:30 AM   #19
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IMO I would print out the link Nancy gave to you and show the Doctor and maybe he needs a letter sent to him from "an outside source" about how this website isn't filled with addicts but run by professionals and used by people who have their addiction in remission or who are seeking to put their addiction into remission. That Dr. is a jerk!!!
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Unread 12-11-2010, 12:08 PM   #20
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I would like to add that I found this site through the Here to Help website, meaning, if this doctor was trained to prescribe Suboxone and is now saying Here to Help is full of lower than dirt addicts, maybe he shouldn't be a Sub doctor. Isn't that like him saying the medical school he went to is not a worthy place for information? Only HE is the one supreme giver of advice?

Sorry, just had to say it.
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Unread 12-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #21
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i have a thread somewhere about my recent tramadol experience, I did get some extra pain relief, along with the rest of the side effects family. I was hallucinating, visual and audio, really dizzy, going back and forth out of dreams not even knowing the difference between sleeping and being awake. It was like being on acid. I had moments when i thought i would have to call an ambulance. It felt like dying!!!whatever that is!!!
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Unread 12-11-2010, 02:57 PM   #22
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benn11~
I think looking for a new Dr would probably be an exellent idea. IMO, Dr's should listen to what we have to say, and instead of saying things like yours did, sit down and do some research! Everytime I have been to my Sub Dr and shared with her things about new Bup meds coming out, or something else I've learned about Sub, she has always listened to me, and if she's unsure about something I say she looks into it and will let me know what she finds out. I have even told her things that she wasn't aware of and was happy to hear of it so she could look into it for her own education.

I know not all Dr's will be this open minded, but they should at least listen to what you have to say and look into the info.

I am on Sub to help control pain, when I spoke to my Dr about taking it in smaller doses multiple times a day, she was open to me trying it in a way that we thought might help, and since then, it's been helping a lot more. I take smaller doses (2-4mg) every 4-6hrs. When she looked into, she found that when scripting it out for pain that is the way the have found it to work better.

We tend to forget that we are the ones hiring these Dr's to help care for our medical needs. If they aren't working out for us for whatever reason, we have the option of firing them. When you go to a doctor with questions or concerns, their job is to address those question or concern, not shoot us down! If they don't have the answer or are unsure, then they should look into it and educate themself.

I think that trying to spread your normal dose out thru out the day and see if it helps with the pain has nor harm in it. If it does, great, you have something to help. If not, then you just have to go back to your regular dosing schedule. I hope you're able to find another doctor who is willing to work FOR you and actually help you when you have problems you need addressed. Good luck!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 05:47 PM   #23
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i have a thread somewhere about my recent tramadol experience, I did get some extra pain relief, along with the rest of the side effects family. I was hallucinating, visual and audio, really dizzy, going back and forth out of dreams not even knowing the difference between sleeping and being awake. It was like being on acid. I had moments when i thought i would have to call an ambulance. It felt like dying!!!whatever that is!!!
This is exactly what I experienced, too, willard47! This stuff was/is poison (at least, to me and in my mind) and I was on it for 1 1/2 years! I can't remember how it was that I functioned, but I must have thought, "Wow! This is great! AND I can buy it right off the Internet and no one is slapping my hand, so it must be OK." How very, very stupid and naive. How could I have thought that, and have had all these side effects. When I would withdraw from Tram, everything smelled like rotting meat~~~just made me want to vomit. And yet I did this time and again!

This is what is so great for me about Suboxone. I do not have those horrible cravings, altered sense of smell (bad, bad, bad!), hearing problems, dizzyness or sleepiness!! I have never known life to be like this, mainly b/c it is hard for me to remember life 30 years ago, before narcotics, I'm so ashamed to admit. BTW, Tramadol has caused me to lose part of my hearing~~~this is no joke! I realize it must have some kind of benefit, but when I hear the word or see it written, all I see is a skull and crossbones! But then, I abused it and now pay for it by having diminished hearing. So.......IMO, STAY AWAY FROM TRAMADOL!!!

And thank you, Lord, for Suboxone!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 05:57 PM   #24
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My dr suggested smaller doses she said they are just finding this out. cuttin them with scissors is the way to break them up. I know the smaller dose works best for pain for me from experience i've done it, Good luck.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:26 PM   #25
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I'm with Toms,

Didn't you make an agreement with your Sub doctor to not visit other physicians and stick with one pharmacy? Mine did.

You're on a dangerous road....

Tom L.

No, I have to see another doctor thats through my insurance (Kaiser) for my other meds. My sub doctor is out of pocket and knows I see another doctor.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:33 PM   #26
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Hi benn11, wow, that was very offensive! I really do hope you find another doctor and soon! You need a doctor who will work with you and listen to you and maybe help you find suitable alternatives.

Here is something about pain from doctors:

http://pcssb.org/wp-content/uploads/...e-for-pain.pdf

3. Sublingual formulations of buprenorphine and buprenorphine/naloxone may provide mild analgesia in opioid-dependent (addicted) individuals with acute and chronic pain
a. Dividing the dose of buprenorphine SL and buprenorphine/naloxone SL to twice, or three, times a day may impart more consistent analgesia effect than single daily doses

In my opinion, it couldn't hurt to see if smaller doses every four to six hours help. What is your current daily dose?

But please, find another doctor you can work with.

Nancy

Thank you very much. I will try that and see how it does. I am also waiting to speak to another doctor that I have seen before, and he is great. So hopefully I will be able to see him soon. Its amazing that he says bad things about the people on this site, when he was the one that recommended it to me! Thanks for all your help. One thing I have noticed since switching to the film, is it seems to wear off at the end of the day. I start feeling very small, mild withdrawal symptoms towards night. So maybe splitting it up into smaller doses would be a good idea for that as well. By the way I am on 8mg/2mg of the film. Thanks!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:36 PM   #27
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This is exactly what I experienced, too, willard47! This stuff was/is poison (at least, to me and in my mind) and I was on it for 1 1/2 years! I can't remember how it was that I functioned, but I must have thought, "Wow! This is great! AND I can buy it right off the Internet and no one is slapping my hand, so it must be OK." How very, very stupid and naive. How could I have thought that, and have had all these side effects. When I would withdraw from Tram, everything smelled like rotting meat~~~just made me want to vomit. And yet I did this time and again!

This is what is so great for me about Suboxone. I do not have those horrible cravings, altered sense of smell (bad, bad, bad!), hearing problems, dizzyness or sleepiness!! I have never known life to be like this, mainly b/c it is hard for me to remember life 30 years ago, before narcotics, I'm so ashamed to admit. BTW, Tramadol has caused me to lose part of my hearing~~~this is no joke! I realize it must have some kind of benefit, but when I hear the word or see it written, all I see is a skull and crossbones! But then, I abused it and now pay for it by having diminished hearing. So.......IMO, STAY AWAY FROM TRAMADOL!!!

And thank you, Lord, for Suboxone!
I ended up getting rid of my tramadol. Even though I felt no effect from it, I thought I dont need to hold onto it either. So after talking with my therapist about it, I threw the bottle away. From hearing all of this feedback it is definitely not worth the risk. Thank you and take care.
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Unread 12-19-2010, 10:11 AM   #28
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I ended up getting rid of my tramadol. Even though I felt no effect from it, I thought I dont need to hold onto it either. So after talking with my therapist about it, I threw the bottle away. From hearing all of this feedback it is definitely not worth the risk. Thank you and take care.
Good for you, benn11! I'm proud of you for getting rid of the Trams, even though you had no ill effects (lucky, lucky you---b/c they can be extremely nasty). Now, just the thought of Tramadol makes me physically ill.....and the company is STILL calling me to try and get me to OK another batch to send by UPS! I hate them for it---and I hate myself for starting this in the first place. Suboxone has saved my life, there's no doubt in my mind.

Blessings to you and all survivors!!
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Unread 12-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #29
AbbyNormal
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Benn, as long as the other doctor knows you're seeing a Sub Dr., you've done what was asked.

I said that because I got the ream going to another one and getting some Xanax. Big mistake. But there is another specialist I see who does know I take Sub.

Good decision getting rid of the Tramadol. I loved those...
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Unread 12-21-2010, 06:54 AM   #30
erikanh80
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Originally Posted by jekmimi View Post
"BUT....when I discovered I could buy Tramadol with total ease on the Internet!~~~this was my complete come-down!! I took Tramadol any time, any place because I COULD."
omg jekmimi.....I did the same. When I would NOT be able to "score" my percs, I also got tramadol over the internet. Its amazing how easy it is! And I only got them 1 time and that was 1 yr ago and I also still get emails DAILY about refills. I personally found no pain relief from them even NOT being on Sub....its like glorified tylenol I think. And as far as a "high", I definitely felt "weird" but it was not nearly the same. I guess everyone is different, but they kept from w/d and thats why I did it. Thats the WRONG answer as I now know, lol.

I agree...stay away from anything potentially additing, and even though for me they were not, for a lot of people they ARE. Not worth it. There are a LOT of options non-opiate, strong enough for pain as Ive found out on this lovely forum. Ask your Doctor for something else until you achieve relief. But that stuff is very bad for you. Causes seizures in lots of users as well....thats a VERY written and publicized side effect of them. Good Luck.
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Unread 01-03-2011, 12:35 PM   #31
tstar77
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I was told the only thing that will kick off bupe from your receptors is Fentanyl. My dr. told me while i was on the bupe(which im off for 3 weeks now that if i had a car accident or something to tell the medics/dr's that i was on bupe and they would know what to do. I wouldnt suggest using it if you have addictive personality but i highly doubt tramadol work while on bupe. The first time i tried to quite a few years back, i took 5 roxies on the 4th day off bupe and didnt feel a thing.
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