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Unread 11-13-2009, 09:02 PM   #1
oxyaddict
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Default Shooting Subutex

Whats up everyone. I am not new to this site it just has been a while since I have visited. The question I am about to ask is geared towards any health professionals or anyone who really knows what they are talking about.

First of all I have been clean and sober for almost two years. I havent even seen a pill or bags (hereoin). This is the good news. And I have no desire whatsoever to get high.

The problem is I am on subutex 16mg a day. But I break my pill down, add hot water, stir it up, and then inject it. For anyone wondering why I do this, it started by me finding a way to replace the urge of the needle. I also couldnt stand the taste of subutex or suboxone. I have been on both. I do not do this to get high. That is the truth. I feel absolutely nothing when I shoot. And for the past two years I have gotten my life back.

So my issue now is that I am now hooked to shooting subutex. I think I am going to have a really hard time getting off this stuff. But that is not why I am writing. I will cross that bridge when I get there.

What would be the major health concerns if any by shooting subutex. Does shooting (anything) into your vein block arteries?

Anyone with valuable information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Ex Oxyaddict
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Unread 11-13-2009, 10:28 PM   #2
NancyB
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Hi oxyaddict, sorry to hear that you're still misusing Subutex.

Yes, there are fillers and in binders in Subutex that could cause serious health hazards.
People talked with you about this behavior over a year ago in this thread:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=19535
Nothing has changed since then.

Not liking the taste isn't an excuse to be injecting it. When people don't like the taste, they put a mint on top of their tongue to help with that.


Are you going to any type of therapy to help you with your addictive behavior? I would suggest you get some behavioral therapy to learn what you need to do about your addiction to the needle, and start taking Subutex the way it was meant to be taken - sublingually.

This might interest you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikells43 View Post
people that inject subutex get serious complications, it turns to cotton in ur veins and causes all kinds of probs including gangreen(SP). click, print and take these with u when u ask and say look do u think i want to shoot something that does this to people.

http://www.docguide.com/news/content...pabstract=1&u=

http://www.sma.org.sg/smj/4711/4711a1.pdf

http://www.annals.edu.sg/pdf/34VolNo.../V34N9p575.pdf

http://www.annals.edu.sg/pdf/35VolNo.../V35N7p487.pdf
I hope you can get your addictive behavior under control. You need to do that first before so that when the time comes to taper off of Subutex, it'll make it a lot easier for you.

Please, be careful.

Best wishes.

Nancy
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Unread 11-13-2009, 10:38 PM   #3
OhioMike
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The love for the needle can be just as big of a addiction as the substances themselves! ...... & at times more so!

Only real therapy and treatment will help you with this. You have to change you and yes, that isn't easy. Until you can find good productive tools in dealing with your fondness of the needle, you will simply stay chasing your tail.

Please explore all recovery options, methods, tools and so on. I think professional therapy would be a must, as well as a very strong peer support program.

Hang in there, you can find your answers!

Mike
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Unread 11-14-2009, 10:14 AM   #4
neisy58
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hi oxyaddict,
i can't tell you what not to do,i have made enough mistakes of my own even in recovery.
but i do know even with myself,it's all about why we continue the same behavior.
i will use myself as an example,i am supposed to take 8 mgs of suboxone a day in the morning.
i talked with my dr and he agreed with me that it would be ok if i split it up in 2- 4 mg doses.
by doing this i am still using the suboxone with the same using behavior.
i am even splitting it up in 3-4 doses a day to continue my using behavior,and i have only gotten worse since starting suboxone in june.
i have come to the reality that i need to find a therapist that deals with addiction and addiction behavior.
i go to a womans support group 2 times a week,education on wed and i see my suboxone dr once a month.
because i was honest with my counselor,group and my dr,i am now in fear that i may be dropped from this practice.
i have been told so,and now i even have been taking more than prescribed,due to stress.
because i know if i can be dropped from this treatment and all that goes with it,that even makes me more determinded to find someone to help me.
suboxone has saved my life,helped me to live a more normal life and i fear this will all be taken from me because of my behavior.
i know why you continue to use you sub the way you do,but as i will have to, you will also have to reteach yourself on how not to use the sub the wrong way.
it's not going to be easy,good things come to those who work hard for it.
i wish you all the best and please find a dr,phychiatrist,counselor or therapist that has a background in addiction behavior.
good luck,
denise
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Unread 11-14-2009, 12:16 PM   #5
oxyaddict
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Yeah now I am starting to get nervous. Now that I think about it, I have been doing this for even longer than I previously stated. It is probably closer to 3 1/2 yrs.

I have been doing a lot of research on this over the past couple of days. The reason I started getting concerned is because I have had a slight chest pain right above my heart for the past couple of days.

My first thought was maybe this is starting to clog my arteries? After researching this it doesnt seem like that is plausible. But it does seem like a lot of other really bad stuff can happen.

I have never ever had any type of negative symptom from this but I guess I could have just been lucky up to this point.

The one thing that I still am not understanding is why would someone say that this is so much more dangerous than shooting hereoin. When I was shooting that stuff there was so much garbage cut in with that stuff.

I mean you could see it when you mixed it up. My body would reject it. I woud even throw up 15 secs after shooting up.

Anyhow I appreciate your answers and I really think it is time to start taking this stuff normally.

Do you think by taking this normally that I will have to up my dose since you dont get as much in you by taking it sublingually?

Thanks
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Unread 11-14-2009, 01:53 PM   #6
subhelps
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I seriously want to cry right now. Oxyaddict, you are playing Russian roulette! You asked for someone with a medical background - I was an RN for 18 years, not that that qualifies for any better advice than you've already been given. However, I do understand somewhat the compulsion associated with mailining drugs. After becoming addicted to prescription opiates by mouth, I ultimately ended up mainlining hospital-grade narcotics I illegally obtained from my employer. You need to understand that this was something I would have never ever envisioned myself doing prior to my addiction. Once I felt the rush of using drugs IV, I was hooked. There was something about getting that needle into the vein and injecting those drugs that was just consuming. I knew I would eventually get caught, told myself over and over that this would be the last time. But I did not, could not stop until I got caught and paid the price for it that I knew would eventually have to be paid.
Primary difference between what I was doing and what you are doing is this: I was shooting pharmaceutical quality drugs that are meant to be injected. It wasn't likely to kill me (directly anyway). What you are doing is shooting drugs that are absolutely not intended to be injected. They contain fillers and other inactive ingredients that can kill you. You're thinking of potential damage that can be done over time which I'm sure is possible and likely. But I'm thinking of something more like an immediate reaction - like a chunk of filler straight to your heart or your lung, like an embolus which can literally take you down before 911 can be dialed! I imagine this information is provided in the links you were given above (I didn't read it). I'm just shooting from the hip, haven't done any research or anything. I'm just basing what I'm saying off my knowledge of anatomy and physiology and my experience in the medical field.
So what do you do? Keep this up and I can almost promise you something bad is going to happen. Why don't you just switch to Suboxone? That would take away the mainlining option.
As far as needing a higher dose when changing to sublingual: I don't think so. I'm sure you've been on Sub long enough to be aware of the ceiling effect. Higher doses don't really equal higher effects.
Obviously your addiction involves more than the high of the drugs. It involves the compulsion of sticking that needle into your veins (frankly I'm surprised you have any left). What about the vanity factor? - I hate that I left a couple of scars on my body from the repeated injections.
Bottom line - you are almost certainly going to need some therapy for this. Recovery from addiction is so much more than just being 'clean' from illegal drugs.
Think about how ridiculous it would be if you kill yourself from doing this. You die shooting something that doesn't even get you high. You've got to be willing to do whatever it takes to stop this craziness! Suboxone is a beautiful thing when used as intended. I say this with nothing but love and empathy. I've done extremely stupid and dangerous things because of my addiction. I'm lucky to be alive and to not have hurt anyone worse than I did.
From the reading I've done on this forum, I know there are some kind and knowledgeable people on here who have responded to you. I haven't really said anything new or different here with this lengthy post. I know that. But maybe between all of us here, one of us will say something that gets through. I'll be praying for you. Keep posting.
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Unread 11-14-2009, 03:34 PM   #7
oxyaddict
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Subhelps

I appreciate your kind words. I understand everything that you are saying to me. I think I am just really being thick headed when it comes to this. Its freakin difficult. I know these medicines are a life saver. They have given me my life back. I was a mess on the verge of losing everything that I love.

I have a wife and two beautiful girls and a great job. I think that is what makes this even more difficult. I feel like I am on top of my game right now. I know shooting subs sounds weird but I function greatly. I eat great, I sleep great, I have tons of energy, and I have had no negative syptoms from this thus far.

Essentialy I am back to my old self (except for the fact that I shoot 5mg a sub 3x daily)! My fear is that I will start putting these things under my tongue and they wont fill the void.

On the other hand obviously I dont want to die (especially at the age of 30) from shooting something that gives me absolutely no buzz (that would be retarted)! Well anyhow starting tommorow morning I plan on trying to do this the right way. And if it doesnt work I might just come clean with my doctor and have him prescribe me the big orange wafers instead.

Thanks
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Unread 11-14-2009, 04:21 PM   #8
subhelps
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It will work! The medicine was developed to work the way it's meant to be used - sublingually. It will work! I really think your best bet is to switch to Suboxone - that way you will have zero choice but to stop injecting it. You know, when I lost my job, I didn't have the option any more of using the drugs I was using in the way that I had been using them. No choice. I had to stop because the option was no longer available. If I wanted to and thought it was the right thing to do I could get off Suboxone and work the program required by the Board of Nursing, get my license back and go back to work. I'm not doing it for several reasons. But one of the main ones is that I absolutely do not trust myself that given the option I wouldn't go back and do the same thing again. In other words, if I were in a med room with syringes, needles and drugs I can pretty much guarantee you that it wouldn't be long before I used again.
When possible - remove the temptation; remove the option of using!
Just do it. You're going to be okay. You cannot live the rest of your life this way. If nothing else, you're going to run out of veins and when/if you get sick or need surgery, nobody will be able to get a line in. I've taken care of enough IV drug users to know what a nightmare that is!
Do yourself a favor starting right now - no more excuses!
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Unread 11-14-2009, 05:38 PM   #9
OhioMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxyaddict View Post
Yeah now I am starting to get nervous. Now that I think about it, I have been doing this for even longer than I previously stated. It is probably closer to 3 1/2 yrs.

I have been doing a lot of research on this over the past couple of days. The reason I started getting concerned is because I have had a slight chest pain right above my heart for the past couple of days.

My first thought was maybe this is starting to clog my arteries? After researching this it doesnt seem like that is plausible. But it does seem like a lot of other really bad stuff can happen.

I have never ever had any type of negative symptom from this but I guess I could have just been lucky up to this point.

The one thing that I still am not understanding is why would someone say that this is so much more dangerous than shooting hereoin. When I was shooting that stuff there was so much garbage cut in with that stuff.

I mean you could see it when you mixed it up. My body would reject it. I woud even throw up 15 secs after shooting up.

Anyhow I appreciate your answers and I really think it is time to start taking this stuff normally.

Do you think by taking this normally that I will have to up my dose since you dont get as much in you by taking it sublingually?

Thanks

I would try taking the dose you have been taking, only taking it in the correct fashion of course. See what happens, it might surprise you and work just fine. If not and if you honestly feel that you need more, don't take much more. Take 2mg more, then wait and see how you feel. Your goal should be to hit on the right dose.

I'm glad your rethinking your situation and believe me, if you use different tools and stay vigilant, you can do it!

Mike
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Unread 11-14-2009, 07:44 PM   #10
NancyB
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Hi oxyaddict, keep us posted on you're doing, ok?

We just want to see you well and not harming yourself in any way.

Best wishes,

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 11-15-2009, 08:43 AM   #11
Heath
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Good luck oxyaddict. The mind is a powerful piece of tissue. You should probably think about taking amonth off work and checking into an inpatient facility where your sub would be administered to you and you could have daily counseling. I have a psychology degree and am an addict just like you and a habit is a habit. I'm like rain man sometimes. Organized and methodical almost to the point of autism. The trick is developing good habits. Not bad ones. People like us aren't bad, we're just different. We make a habit out of everything we do. That's why you have kept your great job and wife and kids. Do the best you can and keep in mind that what you are diong is wrong no matter how natural it may come to you and hopefully you can untrain this bad habit.
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