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Unread 09-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #1
vhappy
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Default First I was mad and now so sad

I opened the door for a broken heart again.......
I had to cut my daughter out of my life six months ago, for not taking care of her son (we have him now) Parting, lying and stealing and all the other things that go with drug use.

4 months ago she finally got it together enought to have her son for 2 days per week. She did this by getting a job and a place to live. So she could see her son. After she did this we waited a few months and took baby steps by talking to her on the phone, things were in the early stages of getting better we moved slow and did not have her in our house when she asked to come, but when we decided it was time. We have had 2 visits from her to see her son. Both were for about a hour. I felt so guilty because the whole time she was in my house I was un-easy. I thought what a horrible way to feel about your own daughter. The last visit Saturday it was nice to see her with her son playing and I opened my heart up and began to forgive (not forget)

I should have trusted my instincts. I found out tonight that she had stole my checkbook and written 4 checks at 600.00 a peice. When my husband checked the bank account today and saw the money missing for a moment he wondered if I had slipped. She also quit her job.

Now I must report this to the judge because of the visitation requirement. I also told her that I am going to the police. Last time she did this about 4 years ago, I got as far as the police station and couldn't do it. I didn't turn her in because I loved her. Now I must turn her in because I love her. She needs to face the consequences for her actions.

She texted me begging me not to call the police. I talked with her friends and asked if she was addicted to anything and they felt like she just was being irresponsible and had been out parting everynight, doing anything that was available. I will not take her call or her text, I am afraid that she will break me. I must stay strong.

I feel so weak and guilty right now. I was mad at first and now so sad. I am just getting used to dealing with these intense feelings on my own. What did I do to cause this with her. My other to kids are fine. Did I pass on some deadly disease. I am addicted to pain pills and have been in recovery for 8 months and am so gratefull everyday to be in recovery. I am fianlly becoming the person I was meant to be, and can look in the mirror and not hate what I see. I am very proud for how far I have come, but know the road ahead is long with many unexpected bumps. I can't afford to feel weak and must work through these feelings.

I feel that I have a awful disease, but I also know that I made "choices" I was at a point when I realized that pills could become a problem and I believe I could have stopped. But...I made the choice to go on and travel deep into addiction. I don't think it is like that for everyone, but I know that I made a choice, that led to something else.

I felt I kept my addiction hidden and it couldn't have hurt my kids. I thought because they had a clean house, dinner on the table, and had everything they needed/wanted it didn't effect them. Now I am beginning to think I was wrong (OF COURSE IT AFFECTED THEM) Now I feel I must pay the price.

Will my daughter go to jail" (2,400.00) is that a felony? Can I ask that she get rehab treatment instead of jail time? Right now I am in tears, as I look at my sweet little boy sleeping (her son) what did he do to deserve this, it just breaks my heart. It also breaks my heart to know the heartbeak she will fill one day, for missing out on his life. I'm his grandma, and give him lots of exra love, but he is 3 years old and needs his mommy.

This helps me to "vent" a little her, sorry for rambling. I know there are many families out there like me to draw strength from, my heart goes out to you, if you have any advice I could sure use it.
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Unread 09-22-2009, 11:51 AM   #2
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Oh Vhappy, I am so sorry to hear this. But you must know that you did not cause your daughter to be like she is. Please don't let your guilt eat away at you. She needs help and she continually refuses to get it. You've done so much for her and your grandson. Just taking him into your home full time is not something that all parents would do.

I don't know what constitutes a felony. But I found these links:

About felonies:
http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section250.htm

Alaska Bar Association lawyer referral link. Instead of a full consult, maybe they know someone who would know the answer.
https://www.alaskabar.org/servlet/co...rral_serv.html

Please vent as much as you and let us know what is going on and if there's anything we can do.

Nancy
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Unread 09-22-2009, 01:54 PM   #3
vhappy
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HELP I am sooooo freaked out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My daughter just text me and said if I go to the bank at 9am when it opens (it is 8:45) she will kill herself. I do not know where she is at, but called the police. She is a major drama queen and I have backed her in the corner with no where to go. Do I text her and say I called the police. She is on her cell and I do not know where she is at. I made some calls but did nit find her.

How dare she do this to our family. My nephew did this very same thing 3 years ago and when he was confronted he went in his room, where he had his hunting gun (he was 18, and took his own life. We still struggle deeply with this.

I think I better hang tight and not go to the bank, until we get a handle on this situation. I know the system well here, and if we can find her, she will be admitted to the "little padded room" at the hospital. That could open the doors for treatment. She knows because of what happened, her threat will scare the hell out of us.

I don't want to second guess her, but do not think she would do anything in a million years, but you never know..................................

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Unread 09-22-2009, 02:17 PM   #4
vhappy
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Thanks Nancy for your response, it made me feel better.

I thought about what I wrote above and want to let you all know, I am not looking for advice, just suport. I think we have done everything we can at this point.


I know if I read that, I would be hesitant to say anything, in case it didn't work out.
Sorry for putting anyone on the spot.

This is gonna be one of those days I will get through and be stonger for it!

V-not-so-happy
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Unread 09-22-2009, 02:52 PM   #5
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Hi vhappy,

You're not putting anyone on the spot. I just saw this now, but wanted to give you my support. We're here for each other to lean on in tough times.

Keep posting, ok? That's awful about your nephew, oh my heart goes out to you all.

You will get through this, and you will be stronger for it.

We're all thinking of you. Keep us updated when you can.

Nancy
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Unread 09-22-2009, 06:45 PM   #6
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Nancy,
Just wanted to up-date you. My daughter turned herself into the hospital and they are sending her to a treatment center in Soldotna Alaska at 4pm today

She told them and me through a letter that she was a 3year herion addict. From talking to her brothers friends and cousins she hangs with, they said NO WAY. They said they would have no idea where to get herion here (i am sure it exists)

I don't think I am in denial and that would be a perfect solution for her horrible behavior. I do believe that she has been doing oxy's though. I have seen her lived with her and it just doesn't fit. And I know herion addicts can sometimes function quite well in society. Not only is she one, but she says she shoots it up.

This treatment is for one month and as far as I can tell she is just running from her problemms once again. I sent her a note saying I loved her and would always support her to get better, with that support and recovery in mind, the first step is to accept the consequences for her actions! And if she was going to continue to lie to herself and others, recovery from drugs or mental issues would not be possible.

Well she may be going for all the wrong reasons, but maybe something or somebody will get through to her. (I wish she was going for 6mo-a year)

I went to the bank and trooper's and pressed charges. I am so sick of being on this emotional roller-coaster with her, no trust will be given without her earning it. I well realize that people need the support of their families while in re-hab, but I may use this time to catch my breath.

Thanks again for your support,
Vhappy
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Unread 09-22-2009, 06:54 PM   #7
vhappy
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oh, just one more question, when she arrives I assume she will be given a drug test, would herion show up as herion or just an opiate.

She is darn lucky she is 1/4 Alaska Native as they will be footing the bill for this! That is how she got in so soon, I am going to research Soldotna facilities and try to figure out where she is going, I am sure she will text me or her friends will let me know.
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Unread 09-22-2009, 07:55 PM   #8
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Hi vhappy, I'm glad she turned herself in for treatment. I'm not sure if heroin shows up as heroin or is lumped in with other opiates. Methadone has a separate test.

Here's something I found:
http://www.craigmedical.com/drug_tes...and%20codeine?


Q. What is the difference between morphine, heroin and codeine?
A: Chemically, nothing. All three of these drugs are derived from opium or the opium chemical structure and are in the Opiate class of drugs. The difference is primarily in the manner in which opium is refined or synthetically manufactured and the form and method of delivery.


So it could be hard to tell if she's being truthful about heroin or not.

Maybe after she's there for a while, they can arrange for further treatment for when she's released from that facility. Once you find out more, maybe they do have a longer timeframe and if possible, petition for that.

I hope this month does give you time to breathe. You're still supportive of her, but you don't have to dedicate your life to it. You have to live your life. So don't feel one bit guilty about taking this time for you.

Nancy
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Unread 09-23-2009, 12:55 AM   #9
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VHappy, I just want you to know you've come to the right place to get support. I'm a mother of a recovering addict myself, and there are several here.I haven't been exactly where you are, my son was very lucky that when he ran out of money of his own, instead of stealing he came clean with us and asked for help.....I hope and pray this is the time for your daughter to get the help she needs and that she is at the place in her life where she will use that help and become a recovering addict, too. Give that grandson an extra hug from this grandma to be.......
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Unread 09-24-2009, 12:57 AM   #10
vhappy
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Thank for the kind words of support, she left today and I breath a sigh of relief, the rest is in her hands to find her way. Congradulations Gramma to be. When my daughter got pregnant it was the worst news in the world, we were crushed. And I wasn't big on the idea of being called Gramma, I thought that was going to be several years off. Well Gramma and Grampa were there when he was born,I cut the cord and was the proudest Gramma in the world. It is one of the most rewarding things ever, we both can't wait to get off work and pick him up from daycare. Because of my addiction I missed out on 10 years and poof my kids were gone. I know how fast they grow and enjoy every minute. You are in for a real treat!
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Unread 09-24-2009, 07:55 AM   #11
NancyB
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Hi again, please keep us updated on what's going on. Hopefully she'll learn a lot about herself and decide the right thing to do. Maybe even go on to a sober house or longer-term treatment after that. Fingers crossed.

Now, take this time and take care of you and that precious baby.

Nancy
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Unread 09-24-2009, 07:55 AM   #12
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Hi MamaBet!!! Nice to see you pop in! When's the grandbaby due?

We miss you in chat.


Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 09-24-2009, 08:13 AM   #13
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Hi Vhappy,

I just responded to you in another post, and, I have something to say here as well.
I put my mother through hell with my drinking years ago. I used to threaten to kill myself all of the time, and I had a cousin who did kill himself too, so I knew it would bother her. Once I was facing charges for misdemeanor domestic battery for throwing a pizza at the friend I was living with. He had had enough of my drinking and all of my sh*t that he called the police on me and they came and took me to jail!! He and my mother were speaking every day and trying to figure out what to do with me at that time.
Anyway, in order to have these charges dropped completely, (I have no record at all for anything and wanted to keep it that way) I too "voluntarily" went into treatment (along with a Marchman Act that I didn't contest either, which I originaly had planned on contesting). It was all just to get out of the mess I was in. I don't like to be negative here, but IMO that is exactly what your daughter is doing. I say that because it reminds me too much of me. My mother also had my 3 year old son whom I'd "left" with her in order to go and "find myself". What I "found" was that not having a child allowed me to drink 24/7 in peace and quiet and I quickly spiraled out of control!!
What eventually got me to get myself better was when my mother gave up trying to "help" me, and just completely cut me off from her life. She would only very briefly speak to me about my son, and let me say hello to him very briefly as well. And I mean very briefly. It was as if I didn't exist to her anymore.
When she cut me out of her life, then, and only then, did I truly begin to work on my recovery from alcohol. I completely hated her at the time, but what she did helped me to truly want to help myself, and I believe it saved my life. That is all in the past now and my mother and I now have the best relationship than we have ever had, and I have full custody of my son who is now 13. My mother does not know about my addiction to Vicodin, which happened years after all of this, and she also does not know that I am on Sub. (of course, why would she if she doesn’t know about the Vicodin).
IMO the best thing you can do for your daughter is to continue with the charges that you pressed and cut her out of your life and her son’s life completely until she truly wants to get better. And by doing so, it will help her to truly want to get better, not just play the games she is playing now. (IMO. I hope I am wrong though and that she is ready to work on recovery now).
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Unread 09-26-2009, 12:33 AM   #14
vhappy
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Michelle,
Thank you so much, I can only pray that my daughter will see what you see one day. It means alot to me for you to speak on the other side of this, and what you put your Mother through. I have been doing with my daughter, exactly what your mom did with you. Except I opened the door a crack, but was still very sckeptical and afraid of getting hurt. And I did of course. She is at the point that talk of all the good she is going to do means nothing I HAVE TO SEE ACTION! As for going to re-hab you are 100% right, she is just running again, constantly running. She is going for all the wrong reasons, but maybe, just maybe something will hit home. I am hopeful but doubtful....I will help her live, but not help her die (ya, I watch intervention) and yes I took the checks to the troopers and they will be contacting me. I am glad I did it while I was good and mad it made it easier. You give me hope.
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Unread 09-26-2009, 03:20 PM   #15
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Hi Vhappy,
It makes me feel good that I was able to be of some help to you. Yes, I certainly did put my poor mother through hell. As long as she was still “helping” me, and she still had hope and still believed in me and that I would get better, I still continued to drink. But, for me, when she stopped believing, and gave up all hope, and shut me out of her life, that was when I realized I was on my own without her support, and I couldn’t bear that.
I also really thought about what my life had turned into and where it was headed if I continued with my behavior. Something made me stop and want to get better. What you did, my Mom did also. She shut the door completely, until she SAW results, then she opened the door a small crack at a time. I also stopped telling her how “well” I was doing (Once we were on speaking terms again), I just did what I did and told her the results of what I was doing, and didn’t make a big deal about it, as if the world should bow down to me because I finally stopped drinking.
It took time, it didn’t happen overnight. One thing, for me, once I actually really did get serious about recovery, I completely stopped talking about how serious I was about recovery, and just did it. I knew no one wanted to hear anything I had to say, and that they wouldn’t believe a word I said anyway. I knew that I had to prove myself. For me, that involved not drinking, holding down a job and not doing stupid things.
I think you definitely did the right thing by turning her in. It is for her own good and because you love her and your grandson. IMO, once she stops “telling” you her plans for getting better, and stops blaming everyone and everything under the sun for all of her problems, you will know then that she really is getting better, or at least that she is serious about getting better.
IMO, before she gets to that point though, she probably will go through a period where she will be angry with you for turning her in, and she will blame you for “ruining her life”, and she will hate you for a period of time, and probably say some very hurtful things. Please be prepared for that. Again, I hope not, but, I am just speaking from my own experience. I hope I am wrong.
Take this time while she is in re-hab to unwind a bit for what she has put you through, and plan your course of action for when she gets out. How is your grandson handling this? You are so kind to be taking care of him. It’s good that he is young, and probably doesn’t yet fully understand what is going on with his mommy. Hopefully she will be in recovery when he gets older so he won’t remember any of this.
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Unread 10-02-2009, 09:45 PM   #16
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Hi Vhappy,

I was thinking about you, and wondering how things are going. Have you heard from your daughter at all since she is in treatment? I would figure probably not, as most places don't allow outside contact. I hope you are holding up okay. How is your grandson doing? Please let us know when you have a chance.
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Unread 10-03-2009, 05:40 PM   #17
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Hi Michelle thanks for asking about my daughter, I made a copy of your post and sent it to her in a letter. Because she was so desperate to run away from her problems and lied to her counselor about the severity of her problems, they want her to stay 6 months (yeah) but she is fighting it. No she is not shooting up, but the emotional and addiction problems she has certainly warrant that. It would appear that abandoning her son doesn't bother her, but I can't even imagine how horrible she will feel inside about that, once she can't use to cover those emotions. She has a long hard road ahead.

They are going to send her to Sitka, Alaska for one month. She leaves the other treatment facility on Monday and will return after a Month in Sitka. This treatment is more of a spiritual journey (sweat tents) thing like that. It is supposed to help her get in touch with herself and feelings. It is a GREAT oppertunity and follows the Alaska native culture of healing. I just hope she isn't to immature. I think she thought she would run from her problems and they would fix her. She is finding out that she has to dig deep down and fix herself. We are in a wait and see mode....And she is already trying to set the rules, demanding she come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I can see Christmas and they mey let her. She is basing this on the fact she does not want to be away from her son. She has to understand that this time away from her son can give her the tools to finally parent him. Also I am afraid that she will relapse if she comes home at Christmas. All the kids come home from college at that time and party hardy! I think we/she better just take it one day at a time and not worry about 2 months from now.
We took my Grandson to the beach this morning to play in the tidepools, as he was getting his coat on he said I don't wanna go to Mommy's. Many times my daughter has gave the judge a line of crap and he thinks we prevent her from seeing him. We must take him for mandatory visits and they don't always go well. They sleep on couches and he is confused. We assured him, he wasn't going to go see Mommy, and Mommy went on the plane to go get better so she can see him. He was good with that (for now) Sometimes I think I secretly wish she won't get better so I can keep him forever. How did your Mom do with that? But the other part of me knows that I can never replace his Mother's love and he needs and deserves that.

I just started my fall semester and have tons of homework. I started last Feb, and am already in my 3rd semester and have a 4.0 but have to work my but off. I really think my addiction had damaged my brain, but also think learning to use it again, is helpful in my recovery. I am working towards a degree in human services. I already work in social services but want to be certified in something, not sure what. I think I would like to head towards something in addiction. I'm thinking why am I rambling off about this now, I am just thinking none of this would have been possible without recovery. Also the situation with my daughter would have been much worse, had I not had my head on straight, I would have done what I always did....bury my feelings and emotions under a big pile of pills! Thanks for checking on me!
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Unread 10-04-2009, 08:12 PM   #18
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Hi Vhappy,
Glad you are hanging in there. I just wanted to write to let you know that I will respond to your post soon, when I have the adequate amount of time to do so.

Take care, and talk to you soon!!
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Unread 10-06-2009, 12:09 PM   #19
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Hi Vhappy,
Yeah, IMO it sounds like she’s not ready yet. The fact that she is fighting staying longer, and “demanding” to come home for the holidays, and trying to be the one to set the rules, again, this sounds all too familiar. I don’t’ blame you for being hesitant in having her home for the holidays, there is way too much potential for a lot of drama and chaos that you and your grandson don’t need right now.
But, one thing I have to say, although it may appear that abandoning her son doesnÂ’t bother her, it may be the thing that actually bothers her the most. Of course, maybe not, but I know it was the one thing that just constantly ate away inside of me the four years I was away from him. I tried to block it out and convince myself that he was better off with my mom, and that I just wasnÂ’t meant to be a mother, but the truth was, I was disgusted and angry with myself for not being a good mother, well, for not being a mother at all.
My son had to see a psychologist when all of this was going on, and he actually still sees the same one to this day. It has always helped him, and continues to help him.
I think my mom wanted me to get better, but, still wanted to keep him too, deep down inside.
My son was eight years old when I moved back to PA, which was after I had been in addiction remission from alcohol for one year. I stayed with my Mom when I first got back. And, it was awkward. She was clearly his “Mommy”, and why wouldn’t she have been? She was the one raising him for the past four years. She always encouraged my son and me to build a relationship, but she made it clear who was in charge of him! And, he too, was emotionally attached to her. She would always let it up to my son as to if and when he wanted to see me.
I moved back in July of 2004, and by September 2004 I had a job and an apartment and moved out of my Moms. Then I visited with my son, mostly at my MomÂ’s house, but he came over to my place sometimes too.
But, then when he was around ten, almost eleven, he decided he wanted to move in with me!! He was behaving very badly for my mom, and she was at the end of her rope with him. So, at that time, he and I went and looked for apartments, and found one we liked, and in the summer of 2007 he moved in with me.
Well, let me tell you, what a disaster it was at first! It was very difficult. I was not used to having anyone live with me, especially a pre-teen. That in itself took a lot of getting used to! Also, my mom would call me EVERY DAY, sometimes THREE TIMES PER DAY, to see what was going on, and she was literally telling me what to do!! It was driving me completely insane!! I think that in itself caused a lot of problems. Yet, she was just trying to help, and she was missing him herself. I do understand that. But, it made me feel incompetent, and extremely irritated.
After he lived with me for about 9 months or so I think it was, my son and I were not connecting at all. And, we were arguing almost all of the time, and he was calling my Mom all of the time. He decided he wanted to go back to live with her, and my mom flat out told me that he was going back to live with her, and that was that!!
I was extremely angry at first, and told my Mom no way he was going back to live with her, she has no right, blah blah blah!!! Although I knew that is what he wanted, and it was also what was best. I guess I could have tried contested it with the courts, but why would I have done that? And, he was over the age of where his decision matters anyway. It would have served no purpose for me to fight it, and if I would have, I think it would have been just to prevent my Mom from having him back because that, in my mind, would have meant that I was a failure, AGAIN.
So, that was what was best for my son, and the one thing that we all always agreed on was that we just wanted my son to be happy. He wanted to go back and live with her, so I just let it go. I still saw him, just as I used to before he moved in with me.
But, then about six months later after he moved back in with my mom, he wanted to come back to live with me again, and so back he came. But, he was told that he can not keep going back and forth, and that if he wanted to live with me, that he would not be allowed to go back to live with her again. We couldnÂ’t have a constant going back and forth. That would be bad for everyone. He can only have one parentÂ’s rules to live by, and not just try to play us against each other if he didnÂ’t get his way.
That was a little over one year ago now, and he is now 13. Now, he is a typical teenager, and talks back, etc.., but other than that, we have an excellent relationship, and we seem to have finally connected. My mom no longer calls me every day to tell me what to do with him and how to handle situations, and she also NEVER tells me what to do. She may give me her suggestions, but she wonÂ’t tell me what to do like she did before.
My mom and I are close, and I always make an effort to include her, she comes over a lot, and my son and I go to her house at least every other weekend for breakfast, and I encourage my son to spend time with her too. But, as they get older, it gets to become less of an issue anyway because the only ones they want to spend time with are their friends!!
So, yes, I would say she had an extremely difficult time letting go. And how she handled the issue of “giving him back” was that she let my son be the one who determined what he wanted and was comfortable with. I don’t know if that was right or wrong, but that’s what she did. And, I also didn’t fight her on it.
I should probably mention where his father is in all of this. My son’s father and I met in college, and were together for a long time, but never married. He is an attorney and lives about an hour and a half away. He is still not married. He sees my son on the weekends, not every weekend, and certainly not as much as is necessary. But, he does work a lot, and he and my son talk on the phone a lot. And, he and I now are “raising” my son together. I include him in all of the major discipline, and keep him informed about all relevant issues. I need him to help me, I have to say.
During my absence he never desired custody of my son. He has a job where he works a lot of hours, and knew that my Mom was the best one to care for my son. My mom did need his help at one point though and the two of them filed for legal joint custody of my son, on paper, with the courts, when one time while I was in Florida and drinking heavily I came back to PA and took my son, without telling anyone. Needless to say, they had no trouble getting custody and having me declared an unfit mother who was in active alcoholism.
I have no doubt that if I were ever to start drinking again that my Mom would take him again, whether or not my son waned to go. And, his father would agree. But, that is not going to happen. I have no desire whatsoever to drink, even before I became addicted to Vicodin. And, since the Vicodin, I only desired that, not alcohol. I actually canÂ’t even stand the thought of alcohol at all anymore.
And, my Mom never knew I was addicted to Vicodin, and I donÂ’t plan on telling her. So, she also, of course, doesnÂ’t know about the remission with the help of Suboxone. I just donÂ’t know what she would think. Legally, I donÂ’t think she would have a leg to stand on now. But, I just see no point in telling her, and I also donÂ’t have the heart to tell her either. I have a friend who I told about the Sub. and programmed in my cell phone in case of emergency so any hospital can be notified if I canÂ’t speak for myself and if they donÂ’t see the card in my purse that has that information on it.
So, yes, IÂ’m sure when the time comes it will be hard to let go. But, IMO, I think that it may be a bit less painful as he gets older and less dependant on you.
There is an excellent movie that does a very realistic depiction of just this exact situation. It’s called “Sherry Baby”, http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sherrybaby/# .I think you would enjoy it. I actually went out and bought a copy of it when it first came out on DVD.
Ok, well, now you see why I needed adequate time to respond! I swear, I could still go on and on! But, I wonÂ’t. IÂ’ll stop now!
Thank you for taking an interest in me, and listening to my story. I hope that you do get something out of it. It did me good to tell it.
I hope you will continue keep me posted on how things are going.
Have a great day Vhappy. J
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Unread 10-06-2009, 05:55 PM   #20
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I don't know if this helps but you asked "why would she do this to her son" Well try and remember it's not her thats doing this it is addiction... still not right though but nonetheless try and think about maybe some of the mistakes you have made through addiction and treat her addiction the way it may have helped you. I am sorry though for all you have been through and I hope it does get better! You having been addicted in NO way means you have to put up with what she is doing and hope she will recover. Sounds as if she has VERY awesome resources available to her as far as treatment and all we can do is pray that she heals! Much love and respect...
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Unread 10-11-2009, 02:43 PM   #21
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Thank you for a glimpse into your lives. This is helpful to me as I feel the same feelings as so many of you. In day to day life, I don't really relate with many people, cuz my daughters addiction clouds over most encounters. I don't want it to be that way and the people I am with and talk to probably don't even know it, but all the pain, disappointment and fear is always there. After being in rehab for a year at 15, then 3-1/2 more yrs clean, she relapsed on oxy....until the dealer turned her on to herion-it was cheaper and easier to get....then rehab and hard work and several months of clean time....then a personal crisis which led her down the path to destruction. No one in her world even knew that she was using up to 15bags of herion per day. She was functioning, enough to fool us all. I thought her bipolar meds were just off. She didn't live with us so I didn't see her everyday.
My daughter has been on suboxone for 3 months....she found the doctor and began the treatment on her own. No one "found her out" or coerced her to go to him. I hope that is her turning point in her recovery.
It's been about 9 years of this hell. Addiction has changed our whole family's life. Everything seems to be wrapped around her and her dramas. Though we read all the books, go to the meetings and listen to the "experts", it still has taken hold of our hearts and minds and whipped us. We try to not let fear consume us but there it is, lurking, just waiting for the next crisis, the next trip to the hospital or jail or the unspeakable.
Every night I hope she will be safe till morning. She can't sleep at night so I worry she will go out and use out of desperation.
I have seen myself and my family in so many of your stories-it's comforting, in a sick sort of way, to know that we are not alone. Thank you.
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Unread 10-11-2009, 06:37 PM   #22
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Peg, Thank you for sharing your story and let me tell you, You have found a wonderful place here. Suboxone is wonderful and all you can do is enjoy the time you have with your daughter! I know it has to be hard but I was an addict and if everyone was just waiting for me to mess up I would be a mess... I hope you can give the suboxone a chance and I hope your daughter does succeeds in life and never has to go through the hell of addiction again. I hope you and your family find peace in life and never have to go through what you have ever again.
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Unread 10-13-2009, 03:18 AM   #23
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Wow, thanks everyone for sharing, what a great reminder about her doing things because of addiction. How in the world could I forget that???

Michelle, you have written another great post I hope to share with my daughter when the time is right. I know that you are right and she does love him, and that pain may lead her down the path of using to cover her pain. When she was here and he got hurt or had a bad dream, he would want me not her, and I secretly loved that. That must have been so painfull for her. And I must admit that she could never compete with Grandma taking him to the store and buying what ever he wanted, when his Mom never could. Your post opened my eyes to her feelings and for that I am thankfull. I have my own issues to work on. I am so afraid that the day will come that she will come and take him away, and the only way I can deal with that is knowing that he will grow up a better person for it, knowing his Mother loved him enough to get better and build a life for them. She has been gone for 3 weeks now and I have not heard a thing. I am now ready to sit down and write her a letter, I was to sad, emotional and angry before. I need her to know how much we love her and that we will always support her to get better and get her life together. What did you need to hear from your mom?

I traveled to a village to do 2 intakes last week and was supposed to fly back the same day. We have 10 villages in the Island and it is about a 20 minute flight. The weather was horrible and it rained and blew for 5 days straight. When the storm finally let up the airport was closed due to flooding and several of the roads were washed out. We had winds over 70 MPH that whole time. The water finally calmed enough to take a very rough boat ride back 7 days later, only to find that I could not get home due to mudslides for 2 more days. (I don't know about this tough Alaska women thing) I was so thankful it was not last year at this time, as I would have been sooo sick. Thank goodness I had my suboxone with me. It is sooo good to be back sleeping in my own bed, I missed that little guy so much! However I am now behind at work and school and feeling the pressure big time. It would have been a great time to do school work, but the phones and internet were out. I read and read and read. The library actually had the HBO film series on addiction and I watched that, it was great. I will definiatly be watching Sherry Baby let you know how it goes!
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Unread 10-13-2009, 08:50 AM   #24
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Hi vhappy, I'm glad you're back home safe and sound.

Try not to get too overwhelmed with all the work you have to do. Sometimes just making a list and going methodically through it helps me. It feels good when you get to cross something off.

I hope your daughter is taking advantage of the opportunity she has been given with the program she's in. Her son deserves a caring mom, and her mom deserves a caring daughter. Keep us posted when you have time.

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Unread 10-14-2009, 08:19 AM   #25
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Hi Vhappy,
I always just saw everything from my point of view, but, I am also now more aware of how my Mom felt through all of this, which did me some good too. So, thank you, too.
My Mom re-married when I was three, and when I was eleven years old she and her new husband and two new kids moved out of the country, and I stayed behind with my grandparents, (her parents). My grandfather was “out” most of the time, and my grandmother was verbally and emotionally abusive to me. So, since I was eleven years old, I harbored quite a lot of resentment toward my Mother. So, in my case, what I needed to hear from my Mom that made a difference was her acknowledgment of leaving me, and that she was sorry she did it.
She did both acknowledge and apologize, and that was what I definitely needed to hear from her, because I no longer felt all the resentment.
But, for me, I don’t think it was what she said alone that had a direct impact on my stopping. It was a combination of knowing that she was sorry, that she loved me and that she wanted me to be well and to be happy, and that she would be there for me, BUT, that she would not associate with me unless or until I was no longer drinking that ultimately had an impact on my stopping and finally staying stopped.
Even then, I didn’t stop immediately due to physical discomfort when I wasn’t drinking. I had all that anxiety and depression. But, eventually I just decided that I did not want to live like that anymore and I literally took life “one day at a time”, with the main focus being on the farfuture, as opposed to the nearfuture. That’s it. I don’t think there is anything more to it than that. It wasn’t easy, but that is a whole other story!
Basically my Mom cut me out of her life until and unless I got better and she stuck to it. I knew she and my son where there “waiting", and that the “ball was in my court”. That’s what did it for me.
Anyway, I think I said you will “enjoy” the movie “Sherry Baby”. Well, that was not the right word. That movie is not one to “enjoy”, it is, however, very enlightening, and very realistic. It will make you cry, it did me anyway. If you have trouble finding it, please let me know, and I will pick you up a copy and get it to you somehow. But, if you do watch it, yes, please let me know your thoughts on it.
I can’t even imagine such weather like you have in Alaska! Here in PA we whine if it snows a little bit! They go crazy and close all the schools for a few inches of snow!
You have to travel to villages to go to work, and you have MUDSLIDES on your way home! That would be too much for me to handle, I’m afraid! Have you always lived in Alaska? If so, I’m sure you’re used to it.
Yes, thank goodness for Sub. I know it helps you, and it really helps me too with my depression. I cannot imagine ever not taking it again. I hope I never have to.
I have a feeling it wouldn’t have been as difficult to stop drinking and to stay stopped, if they had an equivalent medication as Sub, for alcohol addiction, in order to stop all the anxiety and depression that follows stopping drinking. “They” really ought to work on one, IMO.
Well, take it easy Vhappy. Please keep me updated on how your daughter is doing when you hear anything next. I will be thinking about you and wishing you well.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 09:23 PM   #26
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Michele,
Wow, I sure admire you for your battle with alcohol, my husband is a recovering alcoholic, and he really never stood a chance cause it ran on both sides of his family. My Mother was a RN and now that I think of it, she was always on diet pills and I also have alcohlism in my family. I have had a pretty good understanding of addiction for many years and have always told my kids that they are pre-disposed to addiction. My husband fished in the Bering Sea most of our married life so he worked hard and played hard. We moved to Bellingham Wa. for 8 years so the kids could experience more. My Husband was in the bering sea about 9-10 months a year, so he would fly down when he wasn't at work. However when he was in town for a night or two we were not here and the alcohol caught up with him. He took a very less traveled route for his addiction, and went to Shick Shadel In wa. for treatment. Their motto is, give us 10 days and we will give you back your life. I thought sounds to good to be true, we will see. Well that was several years ago and no problems. He went through shock treatments that worked on his brain so he would not crave alcohol and boy did that work. I'll stick with my suboxone thank you! Sometimes I think that with our addiction background we had no business having kids. I hope by the time my Grandson grows up, we will have advanced in our knowledge and treatments.

My daughter and I had the kind of closeness that my friends envied. She was my princess. I had 2 boys first and wanted a girl so bad to fuss over. My husband had to remind me the first few years, that I had 2 other children. She slept with me until she was 12 years old and we did everthing together. She received tons of love, all my attention, and of course wanted for nothing. I think she is jelouse, because we shower that all on her son and she is not the main focus of the family. Who knows maybe she seeks the attention rather, it is negative or positive. When she turned 13 she got mixed up in the wrong group of kids, and then we returned to Kodiak and it was all downhill from there. One of the big problems why we buck heads is that we are exactly alike. I met my husband when I was 20 and he was 28. He had his own house and was responsible. He basically raised me, he took ME to the village to live the next 10 years. The villages dont have drugs or alcohol. And I got into a stable routine and straightened out my life. We have offered to set her up in the village, we still have a nice house over there and she is a 10 minute flight from town. She knows everyone and was born there. She refused to go, I would imagine because of her addiction's. Now if she stays at re-hab it may be a good time to go and get to know her son. Besides village life is a little kids dream. Beaches, Lagoons, waterfalls, four wheelers and excellent schools. I am really close with my boys and she is more of a daddy's girl now. Why do Mother daughter relationships have to be so darn complicated??? From a Mother's point of view, you not telling your Mom about the suboxone I think is a good choice. I know if it was Desiree (my daughter) and she had been successful in recovery and this came up later, I would be very worried, thinking here we go again. I am a social worker and help find services for people with alcohol problems. They fight and fight that disease, re-hab after rehab. They lose families. It is a really hard battle, that tells me you certainly have what it takes to beat this disease. I am so proud of you! You are a inspiration to me. As for Alaska, I moved here when I was 15 from Seattle. I had the time of my life, running around with kids that made 50,000 in the summer's salmon fishing. Oh yes we partied hard and bought drugs by the truckload. Not alot of regrets about that I had a blast. It was just a part of my life, that made me who I am today. Of course we didn't know about addiction then. Addiction is funny, we didn't know in our heads we could get addicted, so we didn't. Sub is also a excellent antidepressant for me also. We have a blockbuster I will check on that movie this weekend. I am still catching up on schoolwork. That Nancy is one SMART LADY, I was stressed and actually had a few craves, because that's how my mind wants to work. As I was flying in over the town I got this excited feeling. When I use to go to the village, the minute I got off the plane I was seeking DOC. So it was those old feelings combined with the stress. I didn't even see that coming, but she sure did. I made the list and only have 2 more things to cross off. Again ONE SMART LADY.

Thanks Michele, you have helped and inspired me, more than you know.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 01:32 AM   #27
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Hi, just wanted to give a up-date on my daughter, she has been in rehab several weeks and I had my first call from her about a week ago. She was so sorry for everthing and I actually felt like she meant it for the first time. She and I really had a good cry together and talked about some difficult things. It was so nice and long overdue. They would like me to fly up for a family day and I would like to do it. My daughter told me that these "family days" are no walk in the park. And she wanted to warn me before I came. I think it will be hard but I think it will be helpful in her recovery as well as mine. I spoke with her counselor who called me, she said that my daughter is a great avoider and does not like to share her true emotions. Funny thing that is exactly what my counselor said about me. She also knew of my pill use and we talked about that a little. My daughter is also in re-hab for pill use. My daughter's counselor pointed out, that we could be in recovery togther and support each other. I had never thought of that, but I think it would be a great way to rebuild our relationship....or destroy it. I am so hopeful for my daughter, but also realistic, I know everything she says now sounds so good, but we will have to see what happens after, as that's when the real work, just begins. I am really scared.
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Unread 10-23-2009, 08:17 AM   #28
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Hi vhappy, when is family day? Maybe you'll be able to tell her sincerity when you see her and talk with her face-to-face? It's also good to be cautious, as she still needs to prove that she's serious and not trying to win you over.

I know it's easy for me to say, but try not to be scared. The onus is on her to really take charge of her own recovery and her life. You'll be there when she is truly ready, as you always have.

You're both in my thoughts that it will turn out to truly be both of you supporting each other and making each other stronger.

Nancy
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Unread 10-23-2009, 09:06 PM   #29
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Maybe you can see if your daughter is a canidate for suboxone because it may lessen her chances of relapse (if it was opiates she was addicted to) I remember you saying that she said it was herion and as you know Sub helps with that too. I hope that you and your daughter can bond, seeing as you both have struggled with addiction, Maybe you can go to meetings together etc... You two bonding and being "recovery buddies" can be so good for her because if she relapses chances are she will come to you if you guys are recovering together and confiding in oneanother. Also maybe you can share with her what has helped/not helped you with recovery because it seems like your personalities are quite simular. I hope she continues to recover and keeps getting the help she needs. Also you may try and help her realize what exactly her triggers are so that she can avoid them.
Good-luck
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Unread 10-25-2009, 02:56 AM   #30
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When I talked with my daughters counselor, she said that my daughter was partying hard for sure, but did not appear to go through any withdrawl from anything when she arrived. It sounds as though she was doing whatever drugs were availble. I think the herion thing was to make a excuse for her behavior. Regardless she has drug problems and I bet suboxone could be helpful. However we will have to see how this progresses. If she is not addicted to anyone thing, I hate to see her go on something she will have to wean off of. But if it will keep her clean and pills our her downfall it could be a good thing.

Now get this......I had a long talk with the counselor and explained our family dynamics and told her I was in recovery and using suboxone. Now I am on the list of people she is not to be around because they say I am using. This rehab seems to be quite good and only takes 7 people at a time. They are right on with her problems and our dealing with her addictive relationship problem, lying and stealing, people pleasing, hiding her emotions and parenting classes. Her counselor said that she suffers extreme guilt about her son. So I am pleased with the progress and do not want to discourage her in anyway. When she told me the suboxone thing, I just said it may not be right for everyone but it was right for me. Any ideas how I should handle this? She is afraid that they want to get me to family day so they can ream me about the suboxone.
Thanks,
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Unread 10-25-2009, 08:04 AM   #31
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Hi Vhappy,
Wow, I can’t believe that the rehab is going to tell your daughter not to associate with you because you are taking Sub. That is crazy, and that makes me angry that they are saying that.
IMO, Sub. would DEFINITELY help your daughter. Even if she was doing different drugs, since heroin was one of the drugs she was doing, I think that alone would qualify her to go on Sub. I know you said that If she is not addicted to anyone thing, I hate to see her go on something she will have to wean off of.”But, if she relapses before she can make the changes that she needs to make, that would certainly not be good either, and far worse than having to wean off of a medication. IMO, between relapse and weaning, weaning is the lesser of the two evils.
Furthermore, I know Sub helps me with my depression, and I have no plans on going off of it. I know you feel the same way. IMO it is very likely that it would also benefit your daughter.
IMO, I don’t think that they would invite you to your daughter’s rehab to ream you about Sub. Who told you that? Your daughter? Or her counselor? I guess if her counselor told you that that it could possibly be true. What did you say when you were told this?
If it does turn out to be true, and they want to ream you about Sub, educate them. Maybe they don’t understand the benefits of Sub. Anyone who is truly educated, and educated about Sub will surely understand that Sub. is beneficial. So, if their plans are to attack you for being on Sub, you give it back to them with education.
I’m sure you know the counter arguments to what their arguments will be, so if they really do “attack” you, you will have no choice but to try to educate them. That's all you can do. That's all any of us can and should do if and when people attack us. But again, IMO, I really have a hard time believing that they would have you go to your daughter’s rehab to attack you about Sub treatment. But, stranger things have happened I’m sure!
I hope that that when your daughter gets out that she gets herself together and truly begins to recover. But, IMO, if she does relapse, I would have a Sub doctor lined up for her in the event that she would want to go on it. If anything, maybe at least she will truly want to recover this time, may find it difficult because her brain has not had a chance to heal yet, and may relapse. If that were to happen, maybe then she would be interested in going on Sub. if her way (The rehab’s way of non medication assisted treatment) does not work.
How long will she be in there? And, has anything been determined about the holidays yet? I remember before you said that your daughter was “demanding” to go home to your house for the holidays.
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Unread 10-25-2009, 04:35 PM   #32
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Michele,
The demands have stopped, and a whole lot of different words are coming out of her mouth now. I may be getting snowed and time will tell, but I feel like I have my long lost daughter back. She realizes now that coming back here would be detrimental to her recovery. She is beginning to understand herself and have that zest for life again. I must tell you, I think she will get clean for awhile, and even with her best efforts relapse again, just because of her age the cards are stacked against her. Right now she is trying to figure out if she is going to go to a sober living house for six months in Soldotna or start bueaty school in January where she could live with my neice who has 10 years of sobriety and is married. My neice still goes to meetings and has her own bueaty shop. The school is in Portland and is a very good one. She would have the mentoring that she needs and the voc rehab program she is in, and because she is a Alaska Native will pay for everything including for me to fly down with her son for visits. (lucky girl). We have discussed that choices she makes now will effect the rest of her life. On one side getting that extra six months in a halfway house could be good and better prepare her for the outside, but even the counselor said, that in spite of there best efforts the halfway house often had drugs in it. I know that Portland would offer a safe environment and keep her busy. She has a natural ability in this area already, so she would be doing something she really enjoys. Her cousin my neice lived with us when my daughter was a little girl, because her Mother couldn't handle her anymore. She went to rehab, relapsed and met a wonderful guy at one of her meetings. They eventually married and she went to beauty school 9 years ago and is doing great. They are still both very active in recovery and when they have their 10th aniversary of sobriety in December they are going to start trying for a baby. She would not even consider it until she had 10 years under her. I guess what I am saying, is I think she would be a great role model.

This re-hab my daughter is in goes strictly with N/A. It is a re-hab where all the counselors are hard core recovering addicts and (I think) they are now addicted to N/A and they set their standards very high. If you don't do it their way, you are wrong. I talked with the counselor gave her my little schpeel on suboxone and explained without it, I may have died, and of course everything else about suboxone. It was kinda like talking to a radical bible thumper, who thinks their religion is the only one that will get you to heaven. She refused to listen, and told me that I should join my daughter in treatment and was fooling myself if I thought I had even started recovery. The conversation got a little tense a few times and although she never agreed I ended it with I guess we just disagree on this one, I repect your thoughts on this as I wish you would respect mine. She said that if I come to "group" on Sunday by me taking suboxone I am creating a huge barrier for my daughters recovery, and she will most definiatly want to speak on this, so the group can educate me. I have done nothing but educate myself this last year about addiction, recovery and suboxone and still have alot to learn. My daughter said these groups are brutal and alot of hollering and crying goes on. I would like to go as I am firm in beliefs just as they are.( who knows I may sway a few people and then they will kick me out) But I am reasonably sure they will not change their mind for the simple fact of they refuse to even listen and I am the devil as far as they are concerned. All of my daughters calls our monitored, but she didn't care, she told me Mom I saw a huge difference when you got on suboxone and it gave me hope to get better myself. She said that she tried to tell them about it, but of course she is not educated enough about it, to even begin to fight that battle. She referred to it being like taking a person of the jewish faith and turning them into a Christian. (not likley to happen) I have read here all to many times about people being rejected at N/A because of their suboxone use. I feel in recovery that we should embrace people and repect them for their individuality in themselves and their recovery.

If I go to Family day she told me that I was not to use suboxone that day or I would not be welcome. OOOOOOOOOh did I just want to let her have it. But I am not going to be guilty of her sins. I feel like going and informing everyone there that I dropped suboxone in all of their coffee's. According to them (my daughters counselor who has 15 years of sobriety) they would all have to start over. I refer to them as the N/A snobs, only to my husband of course.

I could really go in and raise some hell, but that would hurt my daughter and she would begin to doubt them. I can't let that happen. So for now I am going to call my doctor and see if I can get her in, should we need to. (I see this as a little extra "life insurance"). I am not even going to mention it to her. As much as I would like to bash them for their CLOSED MINDS they have taught my daughter more about herself in a month than I have been able to teach her in a lifetime. I am so proud of her today, and am finding this experience to be so helpful in my own recovery. I have FINALLY been letting alot of feelings and emotions out and talking about them. I AM FEELING THINGS AGAIN FINALLY!!! and though it may be hard at times this is definiatly a step forward in my recovery. Even if I only have my daughter back for a short time I am going to enjoy every moment of it, I had forgotten just how much I love her and what a wonderful/smart person she really is when she is clean and thinking in her right mind. She seems to really want this. I sent her a box with pictures and some hygeine supplies and she said that she burst into tears because I did this for her, as she did not see how I could love her anymore after all she had done. We both had a good cry. I know I have rambled, but I just needed to get this out. Everyone here has been such great support and I can't think you enough. Michele I think I may copy your post and send them off to her if you don't mind. She cannot use the computer now, but has said she would like to join this site when she gets out, if she does I think the support she will find here will help her so much. She will also have intensive outpatient for a year. Right now I am just living one day at a time!
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Unread 10-25-2009, 06:58 PM   #33
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I am so happy things seem to be going great for your daughter! Hopefully everything is on the way to being the way it should be with you and your daughter!
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Unread 10-29-2009, 10:39 PM   #34
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Hi Vhappy,
I am so glad to hear that your daughter is doing well, and that you are enjoying “having her back”. That is wonderful.
I know when I was in rehab I truly did want to get better and change my life. It’s not like I sat there and thought to myself, “boy, I really want to get out of here and keep drinking, and keep ruining my life, and have everyone pissed off, disgusted and disappointed in me. And, I want to continue not being a mother to my son”.
But, when I got out, despite my best intentions, the stress of living a life alcohol free and the “urges” won out. And that was alcohol. IMO, the urges and cravings for opiates are much, much stronger. I am glad you are contacting your Sub. doctor to keep him on “standby” for when she gets out, just in case. Not that she will want to relapse, or disappoint you, but, her brain may not be healed enough yet.
And, being in that re-hab where they are all a bunch of “closed minded 12 steppers”, IMO, is going to make it more difficult for her in the event that she does relapse and end up on Sub. She will have to be “de-programmed” and convinced that she is not “using”. I cannot stand the 12 Step Program or closed minded people. There’s nothing I hate more!! Well, it’s not actually so much the 12 Step program itself I can’t stand, it’s the closed minded one way thinking, “the AA/NA way is the right way and everyone else is wrong” way of thinking that disgusts me. And, unfortunately, I find that most “program people” are like that. There are some very useful concepts that I learned from AA, but, it is not for me, and I will leave it at that.
Well, due to the half life, you would not be able to take Sub. for about three days straight in order to be “clean” when you go to your daughter’s Family Day. Then you would be in withdrawals and wouldn’t be able to go anyway!! That whole thing is just ludicrous!! IMO, just ignore it, how would they know? How dare they say such a thing to you!! It really makes me angry!!! It’s just ridiculous for them to ask you to not take Sub. Besides, you would be going against your doctor’s instructions!
If they try to bombard you with their way of thinking, and try to brainwash you, and you don’t want to say anything in fear of making it difficult for your daughter, then just mentally prepare yourself to go there and “suck it up”. What else can you do? If they are that closed-minded, you would just be wasting your breath anyway if you tried to educate them.
When is the Family Day? Oh, I just looked and you said “Sunday”. Was it this past Sunday? If so, I am anxious to hear how it went. Of course I don’t mind if you print my posts and take them to her. If you think they will help her, it actually makes me feel good that I could be of help.
I agree with you, I think it might be better for her to go and stay with your niece after she gets out. IMO, I think it would be more of a positive environment for her than a 12 step sober living house. And, your niece would be “on to her” if she tries to bullsh*t her. Also, if she stays with your niece, your daughter could observe how normal people in recovery really live. And, yes, there are drugs in sober living houses that would not be present at your niece’s house.
But, I say this because she does have the option of staying with your niece. If she didn’t have that option, IMO, the sober living house is an excellent choice for her. I hope she does go somewhere though. She needs to have some structure during the transition from treatment to living “real life” in recovery.
However, I am very biased due to my feelings about 12 Step Programs and those “radical Big Book/Bible Thumpers”. So, I may not be the best one to talk to about this subject!! I am sorry if I went on too much with my negative opinions. It’s just that I feel very strongly about this subject.
I hope that your daughter continues to do well, and I look forward to your next update.
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Unread 10-30-2009, 01:49 AM   #35
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I couldn't agree with you more, how judgemental, hey we all want to go to heaven, and I hate to think that just "one group" who happened to pick the right religion gets in. I could see, if they would even be opened minded enough to learn about suboxone in a objective environment, and then make a judgement call based on their own individuality. But NO they don't even want to hear the name. Every sinse they learned I was on it, they started treating me different, and now have not returned any of my calls. And I feel like I would be the black sheep at family day. If me and my husband go to family day for 4 hours it will cost us almost 2,400.00 in plane tickets alone. I want to support my daughter the best way I can, and if I thought it would have a negative effect on her by not going, I wouldn't let the thumpers get in my way. Even my daughter said that she has cost us so much money she would feel guilty about us spending that money for 4 hours, so I think I am just going to stay home. I am so fearful about her relapsing when she gets out and so is she, just for the fact that she knows she will not be safe and protected like she is now. I think going on suboxone would most likley be the best thing. I have a feeling it will work as a antidepressant on her like it does me. I haven't brought it up, and will wait until she gets out. She may be shot on the spot for even speaking the word where she is at. She has seen whats it's done for me, so I don't think she will be against it. I have not let her know my feelings about her rehab, and think that she might try less harder, if she knew she was going to have suboxoneto reley on. I really wish they were more open minded, but their approach seems to be working well for her. I don't want her to know I disagree with anything, because I don't want to open any doors. Thank you again for sharing, I know that her chances for relapse are very high, so that is why I am just trying to think about one day at a time, and enjoy each one, because the next one may be different. She does seem to have a good strong plan for when she gets out and that is a start. I think if I was still in active addiction myself her odds would be even worse. She said that she completed her 2nd step and it was a hard one for her. Hey if N/A is what works for her, then I support it 100%. My mind is open enough that I just want to see people with this horrible addiction or other addictions, get better not hurt themselves anymore or the ones they love. I don't care how you get there as long as you do!
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Unread 11-01-2009, 03:00 PM   #36
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Michele, I can't even begin to thank you enough for your input, you will never know how much it has helped my "personal growth' Desiree will be coming home for 2 to 3 weeks to take care of business and spend Christmas with her Family.

She has now decided that she will go to a sober living house for six months to a year, to get some sober living time under her belt, before starting school. She really wants to start school, but is focusing on her future and what will be best.

She cannot get into the sober living house until early January and has asked to stay with us, so she can start to develop some trust with her son and us, before she goes. She has asked that we send her and her counselor a list of rules. I have come up with quite an extensive one based on respect for us and herself. Based on, trust will be earned not given. I will be attending N/A meetings with her and working on our relationship. So her time home is to be spent on earning trust and relationships. She has asked that our rules be strict and structured. She does not want to put her or our recovery in jeopardy and has asked that we drug test her once a week. I know this all sounds good, but will be challenging. I do look forward to repairing our relationship and spending Mother daughter time. We have not done that sinse she was 12 years old. I was wondering if you have anything to add, or any rules that would have helped you. She said that she needs rules and stucture in her life, because she is just starting it for the first time. Any ideas from you or anyone?
Thanks,
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Unread 11-04-2009, 08:14 AM   #37
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Hi Vhappy,
I gave this a lot of thought as to what I think will be most helpful for your daughter when she stays with you. I have no actual experience with this though because my Mom would not let me stay with her when I was just out of re-hab. When I did move back to PA and stay with her it had already been a year that I had not drank. However, I can certainly tell you what I think I would have found to be helpful to me if I stayed with her fresh out of rehab, and also, knowing what I know now, what I think would be absolutely necessary.
First of all, I don’t think it would be good to constantly “harp on” her about past mistakes, or to constantly talk about recovery, and constantly remind her that she is in “recovery”. Anyone fresh out of rehab is well aware that they are in recovery, and they should know what they are supposed to be doing and not doing.
I did stay with a friend when I was fresh out of rehab, and I used to get so upset when he would constantly nag me about going to meetings, and if he would keep telling me how it must be so hard for me, and basically, I was treated like a fragile “sick person”. I know he was just trying to help, and that he only had good intentions. All I’m saying is that it made me feel bad about myself.
But, one major difference is that both you and your daughter are in recovery, so perhaps you would have things to talk about together. You wouldn’t necessarily be talking to her like she was a fragile and sick person because you understand addiction.
Also, the situation with her son will need to be taken into consideration. Did you have a chance to watch that movie “Sherry Baby” yet? If not, I really recommend that you watch it before she comes home, because it will really open your eyes as to how she may be feeling.
I don’t have any specific suggestions as to how to handle that other than to try to encourage her son to spend as much time with her as possible, and if you don’t act too “in charge” of her son around her. Everyone knows who is really in charge of your grandson, and that is you, of course. But, that is probably one of the things that she feels the most badly about, and the one thing that will upset her the most. She probably feels like such a failure as a mother. I know I did.
So, I would just keep that in mind and do the best you can so she doesn’t feel bad, like a loser, and like she has no place in any of the decisions regarding her son. Maybe while she is there you could include her in on some of the decisions? I don’t know. Like I said, I don’t have any specific suggestions, other than to keep in mind that that will be a huge thing to take into consideration.
I think it’s a good idea for you to put the rules and expectations in writing, and be specific as possible, so there will be no surprises. Does your list include things such as what time she needs to be in, what places she is permitted to go, who she is permitted to associate with, and what you expect her to do all day? Letting her know what you expect her to do all day is very, very important, IMO. If things like this are discussed ahead of time, I think it would be extremely helpful. Also, if she will have any responsibilities, like washing the dishes, etc…
May sound silly, but sometimes the "little things" are overlooked, and then they can become "huge" things. IMO, an argument about not doing the dishes, for example, could lead to relapse, because it's not really about the "dishes", it's about rules, structure, power, etc........ Do you know what I mean?
Now, the last thing, IMO, that is needed, is a specific plan as to what exactly will happen if she doesn’t follow the rules, if she relapses, or if things just aren’t working out. You need a list of specific consequences. I think it is VITAL to have this planned out, as well as a specific plan as to where she will go in the meantime until she goes to the Sober Living house if things don’t work out at your house. I don’t know where that will be of course, but, IMO, you should have something in place. (Maybe your niece’s house? Just a suggestion).
And, Vhappy, if she doesn’t do what is expected of her, you MUST, MUST, MUST follow through with the consequences. IMO, of course! J I am actually doing this with my own son now in trying to change his behavior, and I find that following through with what I say I am going to do is the most important thing, and, so far, it is working. It may be hard for you, but, you will NOT be doing her any favors if you don’t allow her to meet the consequences of not doing what is expected of her. (IF that even happens, hopefully it won’t. But, you still need to plan for everything, just in case.)
Another thing, don’t be surprised if she decides that she doesn’t want to or need to go to the Sober Living House. Once she is at home, she may decide that she can do it on her own. If that happens, DO NOT (IMO, of course) let her change her mind about going, because that will be the worst thing she can do. And, don’t let her stay with you instead of going. Again, just my opinion, because I know if it was me, and I was living at home, and things were going well that early in recovery, I would probably not have thought it was necessary and probably would have changed my mind about wanting to go to the Sober Living House.
So, those are my thoughts. If I think of anything else, I will let you know. When is she coming home, in December?
As always, I look forward to your updates. Sounds like she is doing very well, and I am very happy for you. And, I am so glad if I can be of any help at all. It really makes me feel good.
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Unread 11-04-2009, 12:15 PM   #38
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Michele, I have much more to tell you, and will actually type the rules out for you to see. I had a thought as I was reading, maybe she could write out what she needs from me. I was thinking about the things you talked about.
Oh my gosh that was so good what you wrote and thank you, I can see that you really put some thought into it.
Besides bawling my eyes out at 7am in the morning (glad my husb just left for work)
you really touched a nerve when you discussed her son. This is something I have thought about, and something I am ashamed of. I have been really mean and flat just not acting nice at times to get back at her. Wow talk about a wake up call. I used to get so mad at her, for using him, to get what she wanted. I am actually guilty of that to. She has been taking alot of parenting classes and is very ashamed of her behavior when she was alone with him. She would mostly sleep why he fended for himself and then get mad when she had to change him. She told me that last night. I will be at work all day, so she will have time alone with him. However she has many meetings to attend while she is here, so I will still use daycare to. I told her I don't want her to think, that just because she had all this classes everything will be a breeze, he is 3 YEARS OLD. and requires alot of patience. So we need to find a good balance and make sure that she is not to overloaded. Well I just needed to write all those emotions I was feeling out......more later. Like I said, you will never know how much you have helped both of us!!!!!!
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Unread 11-08-2009, 06:21 PM   #39
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OMG, my daughter is going to be released, as they feel they have done all they can for her and have a long waiting list of others wanting in. This place is called serenity house and is rated #3 in the state. Here is the big problem, they can not get her into the sober living house until early January and we are both scared to death. It would be one thing if she was prepared for this, but to be called in yesterday and told this is another. She wants this to work as bad as I do, and is scared to death of coming home, because she realizes this is where the trouble lies. I called my neice but her husband lost his job and they had to take in a roommate on Nov 1, for six months. Otherwise my daughter would be welcome and we are willing to pay her rent as long as she is clean and sober. I will be making some calls tomorrow to see if we can find anything else in state or out of state for her. If she is in state, she would be able to see her son more because just getting of the Island to Anchorage is 600.00. She is OK with what ever they/she /we can find because she knows if she doesn't stay clean she can't be with her son anyway. I wish the programs could be at least a year long instead of getting people on their feet and basically setting them up to fail....I am really scared for her because she will be released this Wenesday morning! She has a sponsor who is trying to come up with something to. Her sponser is young also and has 5 years of sobriety. My daughter got to leave with her and was so impressed that she had 2 cars and a nice house. She lives alone and works hard and has had alot of sucess in her life and that is really good for my daughter to see. I would not ask if my daughter could go to her house, because she hasn't offered. And most likley for good reason. So I will do what I can do and if we can't find anything I guess I will have to deal with the reality that she may be coming home. I have spoke to her about the fact I am afraid if she comes home she will feel like she doesn't need to go to the halfway house in January. She is also afraid of that. I think that we will get along fine as long as she isn't using. And she has asked that we drug test her once a week or if we suspect anything. I don't want to feel like I need to keep her at my house to keep her from relapsing, if it doesn't work out. We have went over the list of rules and she has agreed. They are pretty intense, I want her to keep her routine so I want her up by 7am and lights out by eleven PM so she is well rested and up to greet her son when he wakes up. I want her to start building trust with him, and am going to back of as much as possible to allow them time to bond. A small part of me is excited to see her, just because I want that daughter that I talk to on the phone. But reality could be very different. She is supposed to get off the plane and go straight to a meeting and then check in with her counselor. They want her to attend 3 meetings a day, while she is here, and IOP. She is hoping to make some new clean friends at the meetings. But many of the people that are young at these meetings are court ordered, so she needs to be very careful. I ordered sherry baby from netflix yesterday because in my panic I wanted to watch it before she got here, now we may be watching it together. She also wants me to watch a movie call August rush or something like that. Well I guess it's hope for the best, Prepare for the worst. They say she is a buffet style drug abuser, just flat likes them all. Maybe the good thing out of that is that she never got addicted to just one of them. We both realize this doesn't mean she isn't an addict, If I had to call it, I would say she is addicted to making "bad decisions" just venting a bit, it already feels better just to get my fears out in writing.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 10:40 PM   #40
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Hi Vhappy,
WOW! I can’t believe she is coming home already on Wednesday! I didn’t expect her to be home until at least mid-December. How can they do that? Well, that isn’t important now. What’s important now is that she is coming home, and you have to be ready for this.
First, I would not tell her this unless it happens, but, if there is a relapse, IMO, she should definitely go on Sub. immediately. Even if she is addicted to “everything”, that includes opiates. And, if she does not agree to go on it, then tell her she can’t stay with you. I forget, where was she staying before she went to re-hab? Too bad she can’t stay with your niece until she goes in January, that would have been perfect. Now that she is coming home even earlier, I fear that she will be even MORE likely not to want to go in January. I can’t believe that the rehab would just discharge her like that, without her going DIRECTLY to the sober living house. That doesn’t sound right to me at all. The amount of time she was in there is just not long enough for her to be ready to go and stay with you, IMO.
Just keep working on finding some place for her to stay. Or, more importantly, IMO, you MUST have someplace she can go if things don’t work out. Not just if she relapses, but if things just don’t work out in general. She has to know what the consequences will be. If she knows that you have no place to send her, that’s not good.
I’m glad you laid out everything for her as to what you expect her to do every day. I think that will be helpful. Routine is so important. I agree that she will need that for sure.
I don’t even know what else to say. I am just so surprised by all of this. If I think of anything else I want to say to you, I will let you know.
Oh, I don’t think it would be a good idea at all to watch Sherry Baby with her. IMO, I think it would be extremely uncomfortable for both of you if you watch it together. That’s just my opinion. I think it would definitely be good for her to see though, so she can see how she cannot just expect to be “mommy” to her son right away. But, I would not recommend watching it together at all. I never heard of that movie “August Rush”. I am going to Google it to see what it’s about, and maybe watch it myself.
If I don’t talk to you before Wednesday, I will be waiting to hear how things are going once she gets to your house, whenever you have a chance to post. I wish you all of the best. Things will be fine.

Oh, is it really dark out until 9:00am where you are? And, what time does it get dark out in the afternoon? And, just how cold does it get there? I was reading something you wrote on another post, and I wanted to ask you.
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Unread 11-09-2009, 12:07 AM   #41
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I live in Kodiak, Alaska and we have 8 hours of daylight on a clear day soon it will be from about 10am to 4pm. Suboxone not so easy. I get my treatment out of washington. She would have to fly there and the whole thing would cost about 5,000 dollars, plus the cost of meds. She can get back on medicaid and I have already put her on the waiting list for the Anchorage visits. They will even pay her ticket and hotet. counseling, taxi and food vouchers. The waiting list is 5 months, but they know the situation and will get her in sooner if they have an opening. She had some criteria that moved her up on the list more. I know it's not enough and not soon enough, but I have no other options. She can no longer be on my insurance because of her age. I personally know a few physicians assistants I would feel comfortable talking to them about becoming certified, just not sure if they can. I know they can prescribe narcotic's so I don't see why not. I am armed with all the stuff Nancy sent me and intend on doing some "crusading" this week! Thanks for the movie advice, I will view it with my husband, I should have it in a few days. Thanks as always for the advice, I am sure I will have many questions in the coming days!
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Unread 11-09-2009, 09:00 AM   #42
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Hi vhappy, I'm sorry your daughter is coming home so early when she's so vulnerable. Hopefully by keeping her busy with meetings and the IOP, that will help her. How intense is the IOP? Have they found one for her that is 5 or 6 days a week and takes up most of the day?

As for Suboxone certification, PAs cannot get certified. S/he has to be a licensed physician (DO or MD).

The class can be taken online also. Here are some ways for doctors to get certified: http://www.naabt.org/providers.cfm#pc

Hope that helps.
I have your daughter in my thoughts that this works out well for her and for you.

Nancy
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Unread 11-10-2009, 08:33 PM   #43
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Michele,
I have a question, tomorrow is the big day, although we think we have a place in 3 weeks. Because tomorrow is a holiday my husband and I are both off. We will both go pick her up at the airport. Should I bring her son, or have him go to his other Grandparents for a day or two? The reason I ask is that he is #3 on her trigger list and I don't want her to be overwhelmed. Also because he is 3 I can not predict his response towards her. Sometimes he refuse's to talk to her on the phone, but when she calls he may be busy playing and not want to talk. I really want to prepare her so she won't be dissapointed. I went out and bought a "easybake" and some craft materials so when they do spend time together they can have a activity if they chose. I am thinking if he is resistant I could get out the paints or whatever and start the activity and use the "fading process" slowly removing myself. I think the main thing is she has left him at places with so called friends and not came back. I think he does not feel safe with her, or trust her. I think with us around we can be there, but back away more and more. I will still have him in daycare in the day. I would love nothing more than to see her read him a story and put him to bed. I want to do this the best way to cause the least trauma to both of them. I don't want anything to be forced, just natural if at all possible. When she gets off the plane tomorrow, she has to go straight to a AA meeting and then to see her counselor. I think she wants him to go to the airport, but because she is reasonable to suggestions at this point, I don't want to upset her. I am afraid when he see's her at the airport he will be afraid that now she is here, he will have to go with her alone. He will usually grab on to Grandpa's leg and say "uppie" meaning he wants grampa to hold him, because he does not feel safe. Michele you have been so helpful, but I don't want to overload you with questions. You have helped me understand so much. I could write a recovery post with all your post! So if you have time, when you have time...or anyone else.

thanks,
vhappy
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Unread 11-10-2009, 11:36 PM   #44
MicheleJ
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I can’t believe that tomorrow is the big day!

I really am very happy to help you in any way I can by sharing my experience and my opinions that are based on my experience, and, I don't want to give you bad advice!! While I don’t have specific experience with this, it is certainly something that I can relate to nonetheless. Wow, this is really taking me back, which is good for me to realize even more so just how grateful I am to be here for my son now. It makes me appreciate it just a little bit more.

Well, how far is the airport? And how long will you be in the car with her before you take her to her AA meeting? Actually, either way, I think I agree that it might not be best to take her son. It will be a somewhat stressful and awkward situation to begin with. And, if it is a long trip from the airport, it would probably be too long of a trip for your grandson, and too long to have to spend in the car if it is too awkward. And, if it is a short trip, it may be best to just not take him for a short trip because it will disrupt his routine, and it’s just “not worth it”, for lack of a better term, for such a short amount of time.

Whether a short trip or a long trip, you are absolutely right, you just don’t know how he will respond. And, if he responds negatively, it will set everything off on the wrong foot.

IMO, I think maybe don’t take him to the airport. Let her go to her AA Meeting, and then let her see him at your house for a bit later on in the evening. I think she will definitely want to see him, and, it will probably be good for him to see her too so he can get used to the idea that she is back. Maybe all have dinner together (even though he probably doesn’t eat much!)and then, take him to his other grandparents to stay for a few days.

That way, your daughter will have a few days to settle in, and settle in to her routine without immediate stress from the situation with her son. No matter what anyone says, it will be a stressful situation at first, no matter what. She doesn’t need to deal with that stress as soon as she is home, if she doesn’t have to, IMO. She can talk to him on the phone at night the first couple nights, they can get used to each other again.

That is probably what I would do.

I am just trying to think how I would have felt if I would have gone to my Mom’s house immediately after re-hab. I will think about it some more, and let you know.

I think I couldn’t agree with you more as to how you are planning on handling her reuniting with her son, with the crafts so they have something to do together, and then slowly stepping back, but still being there. You have to be, it will not only put your grandson at ease, it will probably also put your daughter at ease, as she will probably not be mentally prepared to deal with him on her own just yet

We can talk more about that later. Let’s get her home first for now.

Well, I just went outside to smoke a cigarette, and I was thinking about this some more, and, I feel completely different now. After really thinking about how I honestly probably would have felt if I went to stay with my Mom immediately after rehab and my son was sent to stay with his other grandparents, I probably would have felt really bad. I would have felt that it was unfair for him to be uprooted from his home because I was there, and I probably would have also felt like the reason he was taken away from his home was because I was not trusted to be around him.

(No matter what the reason really was, or what I would have been told, honestly, that is probably how I would have felt, that I wasn't trusted).


So, after further thought, I have to say, IMO that maybe it would just be best to go about your normal routines from day one. Just jump in and get used to it, not build up the “reunion”, which may add more stress. Your grandson will react to her how he will react, so, maybe just let it happen, the sooner the better. Get it over with.

That’s not to say that he needs to go to the airport. Actually, if you are not going to have him stay with his other grandparents, then the whole airport trip won’t be as significant anyway, IMO.

I decided that I will still leave my original thoughts posted even though I changed my opinion.

Obviously I don’t know the answer. There is no right or wrong answer as to what is best to do. You need to do what you feel is right and what you feel is best for everyone involved.

What I posted above I guess would be the "ideal", and below here is the "reality" of how I really would have felt.


I also do understand that right now you don't trust her yet, and that you do have to look out for your grandson too. My Mom would have looked out for my son too, and, she would have looked out for him before she looked out for me so soon out of rehab. I am certain she would have put him first in that situation. (Which, also, in all honesty, during that period of my life, probably would have made me hurt and angry, like she didn't believe in me).


But, I assume that you also want to know how I would have felt too. So, that is why I told you.

Sorry if I am not being much help here at all!

I wish you all of the best tomorrow that things will go well and smoothly. I know you will be quite busy, but, I will be looking forward to hearing how things go when you get a chance. I also want to hear about the place you found for her to go in three weeks.

Everything will be fine. You are doing such an admirable thing by being there for both your daughter and your grandson.

Take care Vhappy. J
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Last edited by MicheleJ; 11-11-2009 at 12:03 AM..
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Unread 11-11-2009, 12:03 AM   #45
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Nancy how do I delete my auto password? I do hope to share these post with my daughter if/when the time is right. She said that the computer could be dangerous to use, because she will have old contacts. The first thing she wants to do, is delete her my space account. She would like to use the computer with supervision and is to use it only for business or support. I have found a few places that are all younger people in recovery. Do you have any suggestions. She is working on her steps.
Thanks,
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Unread 11-11-2009, 12:26 AM   #46
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I almost want to laugh this is going to be either really good or really bad. My house will consist of 3 recovering addicts and one toddller. Is this a recipe for disaster or what??? She said she felt bad because me and her dad were #2 on her list for triggers. I told her don't feel bad you made #1 on both our list. Thank goodness her dad has several years (alcohol) of sobriety. And I feel pretty good, and know if I wasn't in recovery it would be an absolute disaster! Thank goodness for suboxone because the fights we have had this past year have been brutal and I always ended up wanting to use, and even thought I just wanted to take something to go away because I can't do this. But.....I made it through every time, and learned that I could do this. I finally built the trust in myself I needed. My recovery is number one and I have fought to hard to keep it, and will continue to do so.

Now for the airport. Nothing is farther than 15 minutes away from me. I work less than 5 minutes from my house. You know what, I will just ask her on the phone tonight and put this decision in her hands. I will see what she say's and let her know if she changes her mind about her origanal decision to call tomorrow and let me know. That way like you, if her immediate reaction is one thing and she thinks about it later from a different view, she can change her mind.

Thanks again so much, your post always make me think about all the different points of view. I am excited, yet scared to death. She told me she looks really good, but that is only on the outside, she said on the inside she is a sick person working to get well.
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Unread 11-11-2009, 02:02 AM   #47
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Ok, she just called and wants us to bring him. She comes in a 2:30 and has to see her counselor at 3 and then has a meeting after that until 6pm. So he will just get to see her a short time. I think that is good because it will give him some time to think about her being here. Then she will see him agian after that. She said she use to feel so bad when he rejected her, because she felt so guilty. She knows he may be standoffish at first and says she understands. Another good thing is she has a schedule they have made out with her, for everyday she is here and every waking hour. She said she has work on recovery time, child time, spiritual time, journal time, cooking and cleaning time. It sounds like they have planned her days well, busy but not to overwhelming. I am so glad they did this. She sounded pretty emotional tonight. She has to read her goodbye to alcohol and drugs letter tonight and get up at 5am go to a meeting say goodbye and leave. She has made some good "real" friends for the first time in her life, and is going to have a hard time saying goodbye. I would imagine it's going to be a big day for her tomorrow. I can't believe I am feeling this, but I can't wait to see her.They only feeling I have had about seeing her in the last few years is dread, so this is a pleasant emotion. I think I am going to have an emotional day myself.
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Unread 11-11-2009, 07:22 AM   #48
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Hi Vhappy, I'll be thinking of you today. I hope she's ready and everything works out well.

Nancy
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Unread 11-11-2009, 08:11 AM   #49
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Vhappy,

I'm so glad you just asked her. Don't know why, but that didn't even occur to me!!

I like your humor to lighten the whole situations. I think that's good, and it will help. I like the whole "Three Recovering Addicts and a Toddler". That could be a movie! J

You sound like you have a very strong head on your shoulders, and that you are emotionally ready to deal with this.

I am so glad that they gave her a routine that she is to follow every day, and one that includes “recovery time, child time, spiritual time, journal time, cooking and cleaning time.” I feel that that is the best thing they could have done. It's not even a routine you gave her, so, she shouldn’t be angry at you if she doesn't like it. I believe that structure and routine are so important for early recovery, as well as for “always”, really. I couldn’t imagine my life today without structure and routine. It would be a mess!

This whole thing made me think back and think about things I haven’t thought of in a long time. I just remembered how when my son was a baby I used to get so stressed out taking care of him, and used to be annoyed at having to take care of him because it interfered with my drinking, or sleeping. My Mom used to come over every night after work, and she used to give him his baths. She did it because she wanted to see him, not because I was not capable of giving him his baths. I guess there was an overall “tension” I felt around my son, and my mom wasn’t like that with him. I remember though when she would come over, while she was spending time with him, I would go in my room and drink. During those days, my Mom had no idea that I was drinking. She even told me so later on.

Then, if he was crying or sick, or something like that, he would not calm down for me, but he would for her, and I used to get so upset, angry and hurt about that. Jealous, I believe, would also be an appropriate term. My son and I didn’t “bond” when he was a baby. But, I used to blame my Mom for that. When he was born, he was born early and very premature, and she was at the hospital with me, and when he was born, I was knocked out because he was born by emergency C-Section, but, when I first “came to” and they let me see my son, I remember my Mom having a choice of going with me to my room while I recovered from surgery, or going with the baby to the NICU, and she chose going with the baby. For some reason, that really hurt me to no end, and, again, it made me jealous.

I used to blame the entire me not bonding with my son situation on my mother, especially when I was drinking. And at the end of my active alcohol use, I used to call her on the phone drunk and blame her for things and say hateful and hurtful things to her to try to make her feel bad. I used to tell her that if she never would have come over every night after work to see him and give him baths when he was a baby, that I would have been forced to deal with him, and that we would have bonded if she didn’t interfere. As it to imply, I guess, that all would have been well between my son and me, if she just hadn't come over after work!

(That was only one of many things that I used to call her up and say when I was drunk).

But, at the time, I also used to get really pissed at her if she didn’t come one night, as if she “owed it to me” to help with the baby, since she wasn’t there for me when I was growing up. I used to think that was the least she could do! I also accused her of loving him more than she loved me. Oh my God, what a mess!!!! My thinking back then was just so distorted and sick. I was extremely selfish and had such self pity.

I could go on and on but I won’t. I am just soooo glad those days are over!! Enough about that now!! I don’t even know how I got talking about that!

Yes, I have no doubt that it will be an emotional day for you today too. But, you will get through it just fine. You will see. You are strong enough to handle it. But, there will be nothing to handle, it is going to be a great day for everyone. I just know it! J

I will be waiting to hear when you have a chance.

I just checked, and I believe you are four hours behind Eastern Time. So, at 6:30pm my time tonight, I will be thinking about you for sure, and wishing you well. J
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Unread 11-11-2009, 12:40 PM   #50
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Boy you nailed it when it comes to your Mom and Son, I think she feels everything were feeling. We have helped sinse day one. When she lived first with the father and then on her own, we also helped stopped by. Yes we stopped by because we wanted to see him, but also just to check on things in general. I think that she never bonded with him either. When he was less than 2 weeks old we got a call from her in the middle of the night and she was locked in the bathroom with him. Her and the "dad" had a horrible fight. The basinett had been thrown against the wall and broken. No the baby wasn't in it thank god! We took her home with us and she stayed a few months. We also called Child Protective services and they both got a visit. She never knew it was me that called, until it came out in court. Oh those court days were also brutal! I on the other hand being the mother, was feeling like here we help you, so much. We make sure he has everything that he needs (enabling) but what can you do? We couldn't let him go without food/diapers. I felt like she did not appreciate anything we did, and wondered what would you do without are help. Anyway you and your Mom sound just like me and her, when it comes to all of that stuff. And you know what? I wasn't much better than her, as I was in active addiction myself. Boy those Mother Daughter relationships can sure be "twisted" Well today is the first day of our "new" relationship. This time if things don't go well, and she relapses, or me you never know. At least we will both be equiped with the tools to go on, in a much different way than we had in the past. Thanks for those thoughts, you also had me strolling down memory lane. Thank god deep down there is allot of love, thats gets us through, and as we all know love isn't always easy!
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