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Unread 09-08-2008, 01:07 PM   #1
JuniorNA
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Default Just wanted to share my story and say what's up.

Hello all, wanted to introduce myself and say hello to everyone here that is trying
to make a better life for themselves. I myself was out of control for 5 years. Im very lucky to have a
GF that stood by me, and watched me go down in flames, and she did all she could to help, but i wasnt ready.
5 years later, after my addiction was taking over life, friends, job, and of course, money...I'm not on day 10 with the sub.
I have never gone 10 days without using before in 5 years, and this is is a great accomplishment for me. I know that
I have to be stronger than ever to make it through, as mental addiction is very strong for the majority of us.
I just wanted to say hi, and have a great place to hang out with the going get tough. I'll be searching for some NA meetings in my area
and once again, this forum has helped a lot after reading all of your posts.
Going from 300mg OC a day to sub was scary, i was terrified....and I realize it's really the mind of an addict that makes it hard, and depression of course.
So i'm going to do what is neccessary to change my life, and do it right this time.
My dr. put me on a quick taper since i've been on and off the wagon for about a year now, but never reached the 10 day goal. Usually failing at day 2 or 3.
I know i have a lot of demons to go through, and a lot of battles to overcome, but I think finally....i'm ready to be the normal person I was meant to be.
Just wanted to say HI, and hello to all.

My Dr wants me on a short taper, as he has a lot of information of patients that have been on sub for 6 months to a year and does not think I am fit for that type
of maint. program. He had me on 16mg for 2 days, 8mg for 2 days, then stable at 4mg for 6 days. After that, drop to 2mg for 4 days, then 2 mg every other day for 4 days,
then 1mg, then .5 then deal with it.

What do you guys think, and Hello to all.
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Unread 09-08-2008, 01:25 PM   #2
Done
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Welcome to your new life.

Just my opinion but i would think that you may be better off being on sub until you get those demons wrestled, tyed up and buried after you run them over.

Glad your here, you will get great advice and support.
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Unread 09-08-2008, 04:57 PM   #3
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Hi JuniorNA and welcome. In my opinion, treatment should be tailored to the individual prerson. Is he willing to extend your treatment if you need more time to learn to deal with things? It's always good to have a back-up plan, that can help to take care of any anxiety of wondering 'what if'.

Have you thought about adding one-on-one therapy to your program? That might be helpful in learning the different ways to conquer the demons you've mentioned.

Just a couple of things to think about.

Congratulations on putting your addiction into remission.

Nancy
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Unread 09-08-2008, 05:22 PM   #4
Sam Bailey
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Hey Junior,

After using dope for 5 (+) years, without a single break of more than 10 days, WHY in the world would your doctor even THINK you could race through a quick taper, a taper of less than 3 weeks---and have a darned bit of realistic hope of staying OFF dope, forever?

Junior, with all due respect, it just doesn't make sense. I mean, what are your plans for AFTER the taper? What are your plans for dealing with all your dope-demons then? During these past 5 years, you have, no doubt, felt the...the nightmare of cravings. Will this 21(?) day taper just magically make those (poof!) disappear?

Gosh Junior, I know how monstrously tough drug addiction is. I've battled MY own dope-demons for more than 20 years. It's a dark and frightening world...and, no question, we really do need a helping hand to slay the damned beast. I'm sure your doctor is trying to lend you that helping hand.

Yet, 21 days...? For a 5 YEAR habit, 21 days is, IMO, awfully quick!

Now, it's true: IF you can drop the dope; IF you can quit running the dope streets; IF you genuinely believe this is possible, then, yep, do it. IMO, it is best to be off of all narcotics. A life lived without using drugs of any kind is a life lived best.

However, I could not do it. Drop the dope. Not that quickly. I needed more time. I needed time to heal, time to repair the physical and mental and emotional damage of my drug addiction. I spent nearly 3 years on Sub Maintenance; and that, I know, would probably fell your doc with a sudden case of apoplexy. Today however, I am (currently working on) four months clean, off all dope, including Sub.

During that entire time, I did not, ever, suffer even one (so-called) negative side-effect of Sub. It never once "turned on me"; it never once "stopped working"; and it never once made me depressed, ornery or lazy.

You'll find that they are other folks here who've used Sub for far less than 3 years...and are now clean. Stick around and you'll hear from (some of) them.

In the end, Junior, each of us must do what we believe is right, no matter what one man/woman says, no matter what the "consensus" of a cyber-forum is.

The taper from your doctor will work. Yep, it will. What, though, comes after the taper.

It's that question, Junior, that I believe you must answer. Apologies for the melodrama, but your life depends on the right answer.

best,

sam b
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Unread 09-08-2008, 06:13 PM   #5
JuniorNA
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Sam B, you should in no way apologize in any way shape or form for your melodrama. this is the information and inspiration that I need to help me on this journey. I stated it in my first post, but was not very clear and kind of flew through that area. My doctor has been with me for a year now, he is aware of all the different types of tapers i've done. We've tried long ones, short ones, 5 day tapers, 4 month tapers...etc. He truly did not believe I was ready and he was right. In a way he knew I was coming to him when i could not find anything else, or when it was too early to go back to my Doc. He knew I was hurting inside and a lot of doctors would have kicked me out of their program, it's probably required by law to kick me out of their program, but last week I came into his office determined, sweaty, rude and ready to battle this beast 1 last time, once and for all. He decided that since we tried so many things, and since I was not ready in the past, that my determination and inner strength is more important than any substitute drug can ever be. Suboxone is useless without a strong heart and will to live "were his exact words" . I then realized that for me, personally...the taper meant nothing, the amount of Sub a day i was taking meant nothing, if I'm not going to be in it mentally, then 100mg of sub, will not be any better than 2mg of sub a day. I've failed many times with taking sub in the morning, just to be able to get to work, then finaly find my connection, and use at night...sub was not a recovery tool for me, it was a chance to exist temporarily while waiting for my connection. This is why my dr. and I believe, that as long as my heart is in there, and we know what is coming, and we stay informed, and I go to meetings, and I have one on ones, then I believe it's best to truly admit guilt, admit defeat, and climb back up...not with speed, but with consistancy.

Also, i'd like to say while 10 days is not really a big deal, because we are addicts for life. I do feel that mentally I can beat this, and hopefully my body will agree. Demons stay around forever, even if there are no physical withdrawals, the mind loves to remind of us what we used to do. I need to battle that as well.

Hopefully this made sense, I was rushing

Thanks for all the posts guys/gals

Last edited by JuniorNA; 09-08-2008 at 06:17 PM..
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Unread 09-08-2008, 06:25 PM   #6
JuniorNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi JuniorNA and welcome. In my opinion, treatment should be tailored to the individual prerson. Is he willing to extend your treatment if you need more time to learn to deal with things? It's always good to have a back-up plan, that can help to take care of any anxiety of wondering 'what if'.

Have you thought about adding one-on-one therapy to your program? That might be helpful in learning the different ways to conquer the demons you've mentioned.

Just a couple of things to think about.

Congratulations on putting your addiction into remission.

Nancy
Nancy, thanks for the help and suggestions. Yes, he is absolutely willing to extend my treatment if needed. He is willing to make any neccessary adjustment. I've read on the forums a lot that people are feeling discomfort after dropping dosage, and the best thing to do is not drop at such a quick pace, I think speed is important (i don't want these for long term) but i think consistency is more important. If I tell him a 21 day taper is no good and I'm still feeling discomfort, and having some crazy triggers, then he will absolutely help me and extend it. He will not give me a deadlines as we all know, for addicts, instead of meeting deadlines, we learned to fail at deadlines...which is what i'm trying to break away from.

Please forgive my inexperience and noobness ( ) and also I feel a little bit over the top in my enthusiasm, and I do see that a lot. The only thing now I can do is be humble, pray, try to be strong, and remember what these things did to me, and remember what I did to MYSELF
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Unread 09-08-2008, 08:44 PM   #7
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JuniorNA,
One thing to understand is years of addiction alters the brain, it actually changes the structure. This happens slowly over months and years. Recovery is undoing these brain alterations, to the extent possible and learning to deal with what we cannot change back. Both of those things take time and is why addiction is considered a chronic disease.

How long someone needs to be on medication can vary tremendously, in fact some have become addiction free without medication at all. Others needed years of medication as they slowly made adjustments in their lives that allowed their brains to heal and rewire themselves.

The people who seem to do the best are the ones who stay in treatment as long as it takes, whether that’s one week or 5 years. All the sub does is stop cravings and withdrawal, the real recovery is making significant changes in your life and living them. That is what rewires the brain permanently. Some people need to make more changes than others and may need treatment longer to accomplish this. Some are more sensitive to withdrawal symptoms so they choose to stay in treatment longer to have a more comfortable transition to the medication-free phase of their treatment.

Trying a short treatment first makes sense, but have a back up plan in case you need longer. Quite a few people here thought they could do a quick detox and found they needed many months of treatment to allow the brain to adapt. Others were successful with the short treatment, so it’s worth a try as long as you have a back up ready to go. The most dangerous time in treatment is just after a period of addiction remission, your tolerance will be lower and the amount of opioids you used to take regularly could be a lethal dose after your tolerance has decreased.

Remember relapse is a life threatening event, so put safeguards in place to avoid that, like a return to treatment if you need it. Good luck and welcome to the board.
Tim
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Unread 09-08-2008, 10:25 PM   #8
JuniorNA
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Thanks Tim for that great welcome and that information. I really appreciate it. You're right, I agree....addiction is treated in many ways, shapes and forms. Some people never become addicted, while others fall into ruts a lot faster. I do believe addiction goes hand in hand with depression, and I do believe addiction is the end result of depression. Finding the source of WHY addiction is there, is what really is key to me. For me, it was my life, my boredom, my existence...to me that is source, if I can fix those, and I'm trying, I can learn to stop hiding from reality, and start to embrace it. Only then, will I truly be happy and thankful for life.
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Unread 09-09-2008, 09:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNA View Post
Nancy, thanks for the help and suggestions. Yes, he is absolutely willing to extend my treatment if needed. He is willing to make any neccessary adjustment. I've read on the forums a lot that people are feeling discomfort after dropping dosage, and the best thing to do is not drop at such a quick pace, I think speed is important (i don't want these for long term) but i think consistency is more important. If I tell him a 21 day taper is no good and I'm still feeling discomfort, and having some crazy triggers, then he will absolutely help me and extend it. He will not give me a deadlines as we all know, for addicts, instead of meeting deadlines, we learned to fail at deadlines...which is what i'm trying to break away from.

Please forgive my inexperience and noobness ( ) and also I feel a little bit over the top in my enthusiasm, and I do see that a lot. The only thing now I can do is be humble, pray, try to be strong, and remember what these things did to me, and remember what I did to MYSELF
Hi JuniorNA, that's good to hear that your doctor not only knows you well, but will be willing to extend your treatment if that's what it takes.

Being ready and wanting to stop for yourself is huge and will probably make a big difference in your treatment this time.

Keep us posted on how you're doing.

Nancy
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Unread 09-09-2008, 05:59 PM   #10
barry
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Hey Junior,

I did a 8 day sub detox 15 months ago. I was taking 150 mgs of hydro for 5+ years.
I had never previously tried to taper off hydro nor had I ever taken sub before.

For the first 6 months I experienced mild to moderate PAWS. I still don't sleep real
well today. But aside from mild insomnia I think I feel pretty normal today. I say I think because I really don't remember how I felt before hydro.

Everyday not taking hydro was a blessing for me. Knowing that I wasn't taking hydro
and that I would probably feel significantly feel better in the future kept me going.

Aggressively excercising helped me quite a bit. I also had one on one therapy for
an extended period.

I never really had any cravings once I began and stopped sub.

Best of luck in the future.

Barry
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Unread 09-09-2008, 11:49 PM   #11
JuniorNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry View Post
Hey Junior,

I did a 8 day sub detox 15 months ago. I was taking 150 mgs of hydro for 5+ years.
I had never previously tried to taper off hydro nor had I ever taken sub before.

For the first 6 months I experienced mild to moderate PAWS. I still don't sleep real
well today. But aside from mild insomnia I think I feel pretty normal today. I say I think because I really don't remember how I felt before hydro.

Everyday not taking hydro was a blessing for me. Knowing that I wasn't taking hydro
and that I would probably feel significantly feel better in the future kept me going.

Aggressively excercising helped me quite a bit. I also had one on one therapy for
an extended period.

I never really had any cravings once I began and stopped sub.

Best of luck in the future.

Barry
Thanks Barry for your story. I think it's great that we have such a diverse crowd...people that detox for a year, detox for 2 weeks, and everything in between. It truly shows us all that we're all different in so many ways.

I think its amazing that you were able to pull that off without feeling too many negative effects. While paws can be very distracting, it can be controlled with the right medication. For me, i've been an anxious person since I was 12, so xanax is something I live with, but not something i'm mentally addicted too. I can go 3 months without it, and I wouldnt care if I never saw xanax again, but it does help with some restless nights.

The weirdness of me taking xanax for 8 years, but being able to not take it for 5 months and never thinking about it, leads me to confirm, along with the rest of you that addiction is not only partially mental, but almost fully mental.
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Unread 09-17-2008, 01:14 AM   #12
JuniorNA
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update for everyone. I am now on 18 days sober. August 30th was my last day using...the Saturday I will never forget, and the Saturday I will never want to remember. I have been on 2mg of sub for 5 days now. I havent had an problems or weird W/D's or RLS, but once again 1.5mg of xanax a night for sleep is helping with that during the night time. I'm staggering the sub as I do not want my body to get used to it at a certain time. In a few days I'm going to be going every other day 2mg one day, off the next...etc.

I'm extremely surprised and humbled by this experience and I'm just hoping and praying that the strongest parts of my inner being come into play. Not only do I have to rely on faith, but I have to rely on judgement. I'm staying away from triggers, avoiding people that could even remotely cause a trigger, and keeping my closest and dearest friends in the loop to help me on this amazing journey...which I should be documenting, but i'm not...lol.

Anyway, just wanted to give everyonean update. Expect to see more of me now that I have some more time on my hands. The first 2 weeks I was trying to keep very busy, keeping some brain functions away from my addiction inside....

I know this is a corny quote, but not only do the strong survive, the strong escape....and when I mean escape, I think we all know what type of strongholds we've had over the years...escape is now not only a meaning for retreat, but a meaning for victory.
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Unread 09-17-2008, 06:20 AM   #13
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Junior

Congratulations on 18 days that is great. I myself am at 1mg every other day, I was at 2mg every other day for quit a while at least 6 months and went to 1mgs about 2 months ago and have noticed no difference at all. I am a big advocate on listening to your body, when I notice that I am tired and energy is low I taper down, I started at 16mgs 23 months ago and my drops have been 2mgs every time. Best wishes to you and enjoy your recovery.

Helen
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Unread 09-17-2008, 08:26 AM   #14
NancyB
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Thanks for the update JuniorNA. Good that you're setting up a support system for yourself. That's a big part of the journey.

Nancy
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Unread 09-17-2008, 09:07 AM   #15
JuniorNA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Thanks for the update JuniorNA. Good that you're setting up a support system for yourself. That's a big part of the journey.

Nancy

THanks for your support Nancy. The mornings are still a little "weird" for me as it was such a trigger for 5 years. I changed my hours a little bit to wake up later in the day to change it up, and I'm doing my best to just wake up with coffee and a cigarette instead of 100mg of OC to get the day started. Its one of those triggers i need to overcome, which is another important step to sobriety
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Unread 09-29-2008, 10:03 PM   #16
JuniorNA
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Update to everyone (to whoever is listening and reading)...I'm now on over a month of sobriety, and going about every 2 or 3 days without sub, and taking 2mg should any quick triggers or feelings arise during unsuspecting times. Aug 30th was the last time I used, and today is 31 days ! I havent had any withdrawals when not taking the sub for 3 or 4 days, just bad back pain which is why I got caught up in my DOC in the first place...but I have some muscle relaxers and advil. I still can't believe i've gone 31 days, I couldnt make it 24 hours without taking 400mg of OC a day, and look at how far i've come! I do realize the 1 month - 1 year mark is when people fall off the wagon, so i'm doign my best to stay positive, maintain strong positive thoughts, and hopefully god will answer my questions and help me survive
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Unread 09-30-2008, 10:10 AM   #17
NancyB
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Hi JuniorNA, congratulations! That's great to hear you're doing so well!

You should be so proud of yourself.

Keep us posted when you can!

Nancy
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Unread 09-30-2008, 10:18 AM   #18
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Yeahhhhhhhh 31 days..TOOOOOOOO COOL....Keep up the good work! Recovery is succh a gift....Whether quick taper or slow if we stay in recovery our lifes have meaning!
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Unread 09-30-2008, 03:05 PM   #19
all4mybabies
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Hey Junior!!
Congrats on 1 month....I actually had a month on the 29th....(guess that was a pretty hairy weekend for you & I!! lol)
I just hope you are feeling as great as I am! Keep it up!!
Beth
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Unread 12-15-2008, 09:40 AM   #20
JuniorNA
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Update to everyone. Aug 30th was STILL the last day. I've had great support, and lots and lots of lifelines to help me with this. I havent skipped a beat, and while I will not lie, I do think about them about 2 days a week, but there are truly some days that go by and I do not think about them, and I sit there in amazement on the next morning that I went by a day without thinking about them. it is waaaay too early to start singing and dancing about this, but I can say that the short and sweet sub routine worked as I have not touched a sub since October 1st. The physical W/D's are clearly gone, stomache is back to normal, no more sweating, now its all mental. I'm scheduled to see a therapist this week, and I'm going to attend some meetings with my GF too. She's been clean and sober for 12 months...The energy is back, i'm feeling great, been snowboarding, excercising, and really just enjoying the corny little things in life that we took for granted when we were all zombied out on dope.

Nothing like watching a great movie on a full stomach, if this were 2 years ago, it would just be a lonely dark day of munchin on perks to chase a buzz that never came

The human body is a funny thing, the brain is even funnier.

Thanks everyone !
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Unread 12-15-2008, 10:01 AM   #21
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Hi JuniorNA, congratulations!! I'm so happy to hear everything is going well for both you and your GF.

Adding therapy and meetings are good moves. Maybe with those two things, you can decrease those thoughts to one day and then no days of thinking about the pills.

Thank you so much for checking in.

Happy holidays to you and your GF!

Nancy
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Unread 12-15-2008, 11:13 AM   #22
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Congratulations!! That is so AWESOME you are doing so well!! Keep up the great work!
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Unread 12-23-2008, 07:37 AM   #23
JuniorNA
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thanks for the kind words. This has been the roughest 4 months of my life, outside of the pills i mean, and I'm proud of myself for staying strong and clean. A quote I read here somewhere stuck with me throughout everything. "hard times dont last forever, hard people do!" ....I think about that quote daily and it gives me the strength I need to live to day to day.
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Unread 12-23-2008, 07:59 AM   #24
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Hi JuniorNA, you absolutely should be proud of yourself for being proactive in recognizing that you needed some extra help with meetings and counseling to get through these rough months.

Thanks for sharing.
Nancy
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Unread 12-28-2008, 09:29 AM   #25
deanna
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Hi Junior NA. Ive been following your story and would like to know how you are doing. I have been on sub since September 16th and am doing a much slower taper. OC was also my drug of choice , so your story has caught my attention. Please post and let us know how your doing........deanna
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