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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:15 AM   #1
Sub-Zero
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Default Tapered off after 7 year

Thursday morning I realized it had been 3 days since I took my 1mg dose that I had been taking every other day. I decided to not take it and see what happened. Today is the 5th day and so far so good. I had some trouble sleeping last night and feel like a had a cup of coffee right now but that's about it.

I have been on sub for 7 years I started in a university study before sub was FDA approved and met another member who also posts here. He is down to 1mg too. I started at 24mgs and had withdrawal if I took less, eventually I got down to 16mgs where I stayed for most of my treatment. During that time I completely changed my life, where I lived, who I hung out with, what I did for fun, my career, everything. I attended some meetings but found better peer support from this board, where the people were much more informed and open minded about modern treatments. I also got counseling early on that helped me learn how to deal with anxiety and depression and the other things drugs messes up in your brain.

About a year ago I decided to slowly taper with plans to stop if it got uncomfortable, after reading a post from Mike. At times it did and I stopped the taper but when I felt better I picked it up again. After 10 months I was down to 1mg/day and in the last 2 weeks started taking it every other day.

I had a bad addiction to heroin, methadone, and whatever I could get my hands on, all short treatments had failed. I'm here to tell you that the myths of sub "turning evil" are false, it worked just as well the whole time, and I was easily able to decrease my dose, which tells me it actually became more effective.

Not everyone will need it as long as me, but if they do, don't worry, about what the scarecrows say. Their heads are full of straw, not fact. My experience agrees with all of the science which gives me confidence in addiction medicine. People with horror stories either never understood addiction in the first place or were expecting sub to do something it wasn't meant for. These are the people who say "sub isn't the miracle drug after all" we all know the only people who were expecting it to do miracles are those who didn't understand what it really does- allows you to rebuild your life, by eliminating cravings and withdrawal, that's all, and that is more than enough.

Stick with fact and educate yourself, don't listen to drug-addict chemists who think they know more than doctors or who think the government is out to addict us all. learn the truth and who to trust. Find a good doctor who cares about you and understands addiction and a therapist you can talk to. Find people who have been through it and spend time with the people you care about in your life. It takes all of these things to recover.

Don't let recovery become your life, don't let yourself become a 5 meeting a day, look down on anyone who drinks, hard core anti-fun person and ALWAYS remember drugs and alcohol are not the enemy addiction is. If not you end up fighting drugs and alcohol instead of the real problem - addiction.

I'll keep you up to date and tell you if I get any of the doom and gloom symptoms the scarecrows say are inevitable.

You have all been very helpful to me throughout the entire process. thank you all especially those of you who have tapered and move on with your lives, like Mike, Sam and Stacey.

Sub
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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:30 AM   #2
Sunny1
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WOW, Sub Zero
Congratulations and Thanx so much for writing this post!!! It means a lot to people starting out, and to anyone, who need to read the positivity that comes through in your story! I'm so happy for you!
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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:45 AM   #3
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Sub Zero. I loved reading your post. I don't know if you have read anything I have posted or not, but I have a son that started Sub about a month ago. I've been trying to get him to check this site out, but so far he hasn't. I copied what you wrote, I will give it to him to read. I think you are an inspiration for someone just starting the treatment. Thank you.
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Unread 08-10-2008, 02:01 AM   #4
Sub-Zero
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Thanks sunny1!

Mamabet,
Thank you. Ya know when I was in your son’s shoes I resisted getting on sub because I didn’t want to commit to some plan where I took opioids I just wanted to be done with all and put it behind me and move on. So, I tried that many times and always ended up right back addicted. I think if someone told me that getting unaddicted is going to take time whether you get on suboxone or not, I may have realized that the sooner I start the better and the more comfortable I can be the better. He must know that he isn’t delaying returning to normal by getting bon sub but actually getting there sooner. Once the cravings and withdrawal is gone, it much easier to fix the things that need fixing. Maybe get him to agree to one month of treatment. Once he discovers how good it actually is he will want to continue.
Sub
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Unread 08-10-2008, 02:26 AM   #5
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SUBZERO

WOW, and thank you, you are a true inspiration. I feel exactly the way that you do about people with horror stories only tell because they want something to blame and that is Suboxone and not their own doing. I am closing in on 2 years and for the past 4-5 days I have been at 1mgs instead of 2mgs every other day and so far so good. I, like you feel that Suboxone is a Miracle drug but for me the miracle is that I am living a good life now and I know that if I was still on my DOC I wouldn't be here today. Thank you for a wonderful post.

Helen
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Unread 08-10-2008, 07:40 AM   #6
Connie
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Congratulations Sub-Zero!

I'm sure you must have disclosed this at one time or another but I had NO IDEA you had been on sub for 7 years. Amazing. I've always enjoyed your posts and believed you were one of the "level-headed ones" around here with good, pragmatic advice. And your successful taper down and off just proves I was right...I LOVE to be right, it so rarely happens anymore.

I hope you decide, like Stacey, Mary, Sam and Mike to stick around for awhile and share your wisdom with us. It's so inspirational to have you "ex-subbers" around to keep us grounded in reality and not get sucked into the "doom and gloom" scenarios.

So...what will you do now? Are you going to Disneyland? I hear that's what all the winners do...

Connie
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Unread 08-10-2008, 11:19 AM   #7
OhioMike
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Congratulations Sub-Zero!

You have been an inspiration of mine since I arrived here. Your story proves what can be achieved when education and common sense is applied to working through recovery.

OMike
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Unread 08-10-2008, 11:28 AM   #8
NancyB
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Hi Sub-Zero, congratulations and now you fit your name sub? ZERO!

Thanks for sharing and being an inspiration and help to others in our community.

Keep us posted on how you're doing when you can!

Nancy
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Unread 08-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #9
Stacey
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Wow, Sub!

Your story gave me goose bumps!! I'm happy for you. Do you feel empowered now that you are roaming the earth without an opiate in your body and it's by choice?? I call it 'flyin solo'. I feel it's vital to stick around here after you jump so that people can see it can be done. When I started here in March '06, I think Mike was the only one here. We are the 'end result' and should be available to tell our story. I hope you do.

Amazing. It makes me smile!!

Stace
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Unread 08-10-2008, 12:06 PM   #10
So.Cal.
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Sub_z,,

Wow,,7yrs,,,you took the long way home!!,,but at least you made it.,,And now since you posted this you have an added responsibility to educate us on what we may expect from getting off sub!,,yep,,just what ya need,,MORE responsibility!!lol.
Anyway give us the good and dont skim over the bad,,,we want it all!!!
good luck,,
Tattoo Tommy
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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:25 PM   #11
Sub-Zero
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Thanks everyone for your support. Reading your stories over the years has helped me too!! I will stick around, there's so much misinformation out there on the web I'll do what I can to help educate people.

Day 6 and so far so good, didn't sleep well last night and am tired today. I woke up with a headache but I had a cup of coffee and it went away. I might ask the doc for some sleep aids if I don't sleep well tonight too. I feel things more, like I can't sit still as long as I could when on sub. It must be the fact that sub is a painkiller and now that its gone whatever pain it was killing is back, so I guess I should expect to feel something more. I'll keep you informed.

I did take a long time, maybe I could have stopped sooner, but I figure if its not broke don't fix it and things were going well for me while on sub, and the constipation was manageable for me, I didn't get any other side effects.

I started with a group of 6 people in the study, 3tapered off in 2-3 years and are doing great still, another one is on 1mg and still posts here CK1976, and one never felt right on any dose of sub and went back to methadone in the first year. There were others in the study but I didn't get to know them, but from what I hear just about all of them are still doing well and remain addiction free. I think the reason so many of the people in the study and on this board do well is due to education. The better people understand the disease the more they understand the treatment. People who don't bother to become educated, get angry and feel deceived when their silly notions don't come to pass. The other thing that I think is important is a well balanced recovery plan with a counselor/therapist, peer support, medical help, and family support. Using all of those things to change your life and get out of the rut of addiction is key- IMO.

Sub

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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:37 PM   #12
Johnny
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Wonderful, SubZero! As a "newbie" on day three, your story is encouraging and very positive.

I agree regarding the effectiveness of this Forum. I prefer the people and information that flow through these threads over any of the groups I've participated in for many reasons.

Yours is an amazing story, Sub. I'm very grateful for your taking the time to share it with us!

Johnny
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Unread 08-10-2008, 01:42 PM   #13
Sub-Zero
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What's different about this group than any other I've been to too, is when facts are discussed they are backed up by many independent sources and studies. It's not just an opinion site where the loudest person or the one who posts the most arrogantly is the right one. People here provide the actual source material and allow us to read it and decide for ourselves. It's like the college of addiction where other sites are like recess at playschool.
Sub

just look at the materials here:
http://www.naabt.org/education/literature.cfm
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Unread 08-10-2008, 03:22 PM   #14
Mary
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Alright Sub-Zero! Very cool, very cool. Yeah, people should educate themselves on this gig and realize that sub only stops withdrawals and cravings so we can change the stuff we need to so we can move on. It doesn't count if you fake it and go through the motions either. You have to want to do it. You have to be ready to do it. Otherwise it's just an exercise in futility and a big waste of time. Unless you want to bitch about sub and how it failed you and scare the crap out of people.

Annnnyways, here's a thread I started a long time ago that kinda fits in here.
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4701

Big congratulation beams to you Sub-Z! Hey and everyone else, if you're ready, just do it. There's nothing to be afraid of. If you're not ready then wait until you are. Better off to be on sub than out doing dope. -Mary

edited because the department of redundancy department called about redundancy...
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Unread 08-10-2008, 03:31 PM   #15
Johnny
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Right you are, Mary! I doubt my self esteem would go up if I tossed the cost of this treatment out the window! That counts, with me, along with the desire to quit.
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Unread 08-10-2008, 04:08 PM   #16
Sam Bailey
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Hey Sub-Zero,

A big congratulations!

You wrote, "The other thing that I think is important is a well balanced recovery plan with a counselor/therapist, peer support, medical help, and family support. Using all of those things to change your life and get out of the rut of addiction is key- IMO."

Well Sub, In My Opinion YOUR Opinion is 100% correct! Toss in a regular, steady program of vigorous exercise and (IMO, ha!) be at least a little cautious of one's (other) drug and alcohol use and you'll end up an even stronger, healthier person that you are now.

Way to go, man!

best,

sam b
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Unread 08-10-2008, 06:40 PM   #17
Suture
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Great advice! I'm at 1mg myself and have been forgetting to take it, maybe I'll just stop too. Your story is inspiring and you did everything right. Isn't it funny how when used correctly the treatment works, but when misused it "fails the person". Great job sub-zero!
S-
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Unread 08-10-2008, 06:48 PM   #18
Fish
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WOW! WOW! WOW! LOVE IT! LOVE IT! LOVE!

nuff said!

Please stay with us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS... how about melatonin?

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Unread 08-10-2008, 09:04 PM   #19
dakotagreen_eyes
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Well Sub, first of all.congrats!. I am very happy for u. You have suceeded in something very difficult, and sometimes hard to over come. But, by god, you did it! Congrats again. I do not know if I am the "newbie" here or not. I am on day 13 of sub now. You are right about one thing(along with many more), these people on here are keeping me sober as well. I look foward everyday getting on the computer and being them for them as well as them being here for me. I owe them alot more than I can even imagine giving. So, to all of you, thank you again for so much. God Bless,
Crystal
PS: Am I the newbie here?lol
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Unread 08-10-2008, 09:47 PM   #20
bam55
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Sub
Huge congrats!
Try Nancy and Marys favorite ,Benadryl, for the sleep "gig".Worked for me getting over the last bothersome sleep problem. Two Advil PM for a couple of weeks worked great for me.
Bill
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Unread 08-10-2008, 11:41 PM   #21
jdjk
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Sub,

Kudos on your outstanding accomplishment which I'm sure Suture will shortly share. I suspect that this accomplishment was due in no small part to "listening to your body." If one cuts thru all the mental BS (i.e. preconceived notions, irrational fears, etc) and truly listens to their body success is bound to happen. The ultimate weaning authority is your body not any other entity. Incidentally, I'm sure that your decision to continue to frequent this site will benefit all.
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Unread 08-11-2008, 11:04 AM   #22
isabella07
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Congrats Sub -Zero ! You have always been such an asset to this forum, your knowledge and support has helped me since I found this site - and You have no doubt helped many , many others.
I hope you will still post from time to time : ) Congrats again.... Isa
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Unread 08-11-2008, 03:25 PM   #23
TMONEY
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Hey SUB-ZERO!!
Just wanted to say thank you so much, you have no idea how much you have personally helped me. When I was lost and scared, it was YOU who talked some sense into me and got me on the right track. I've stopped posting for now, just reading, but thought it was important to say congrats and thank you. Also really glad to hear you'll be sticking around.

-TMon
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Unread 08-11-2008, 03:45 PM   #24
Stacey
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Sub-ZERO

Hope this day still finds you feeling just fine.

Suture! Congrat's to you, too on the 1mg! I think Mike tapered in that fashion...take it only when he felt the need and then was eventually done. Keep us posted on that!

Stace
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Unread 08-11-2008, 04:00 PM   #25
OhioMike
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Quote:
quote:Yeah, people should educate themselves on this gig and realize that sub only stops withdrawals and cravings so we can change the stuff we need to so we can move on. It doesn't count if you fake it and go through the motions either. You have to want to do it. You have to be ready to do it. Otherwise it's just an exercise in futility and a big waste of time. Unless you want to bitch about sub and how it failed you and scare the crap out of people.

Quote:
quote:Stick with fact and educate yourself, don't listen to drug-addict chemists who think they know more than doctors or who think the government is out to addict us all. learn the truth and who to trust.

Quote:
quote: I feel exactly the way that you do about people with horror stories only tell because they want something to blame and that is Suboxone and not their own doing.

Quote:
quote: I will stick around, there's so much misinformation out there on the web I'll do what I can to help educate people.

Quote:
quote: I think the reason so many of the people in the study and on this board do well is due to education. The better people understand the disease the more they understand the treatment. People who don't bother to become educated, get angry and feel deceived when their silly notions don't come to pass. The other thing that I think is important is a well balanced recovery plan with a counselor/therapist, peer support, medical help, and family support. Using all of those things to change your life and get out of the rut of addiction is key- IMO.

Quote:
quote:What's different about this group than any other I've been to too, is when facts are discussed they are backed up by many independent sources and studies. It's not just an opinion site where the loudest person or the one who posts the most arrogantly is the right one. People here provide the actual source material and allow us to read it and decide for ourselves. It's like the college of addiction where other sites are like recess at playschool.

Quote:
quote:Isn't it funny how when used correctly the treatment works, but when misused it "fails the person".


All worth repeating and all so very true and important to our personal progress.

Sub-Z, hope your having a good day and thank you for taking us through this with you!!!

OMike
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Unread 08-11-2008, 04:49 PM   #26
CTCheryl
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Sub,
I remember for the longest time I thought you were a guy, and then someone actually referred to you as a guy and you set them straight and that was how I found out you weren't! LOL You were incredibally patient.

Congrats on getting off Sub. I am focusing on getting off myself these days. I feel I am ready some days more than others, sticking with the slow but sure plan is key for me.

I think the only thing I didn't agree with in your post that I just want to mention is your advice of "Don't let recovery become your life, don't let yourself become a 5 meeting a day, look down on anyone who drinks, hard core anti-fun person and ALWAYS remember drugs and alcohol are not the enemy addiction is. If not you end up fighting drugs and alcohol instead of the real problem - addiction."
I go to 5 or sometimes more meetings a week and I don't look down on people that drink and I don't feel I am an anti-fun person. I have more fun these days than I ever did! I hear people say they have a thinking problem not a drinking or drugging problem. That's fine, however, IMO the moment I forget I have a drinking or drugging problem I may find myself thinking it's ok to do and I never want to go back there again. My addictions ARE drugs and alcohol and I need to remember this every day, every minute. When I am no longer diligent my addictive mind will travel to where it doesn't belong. So for me my life IS my recovery and for some, it HAS to be!

I just think it's important to emphasize IMO not direct advice. Other forums's I have been to lately don't dispute the Science (as I once believed) as much as focus on being totally opiate free. DRUG free, which at one time wasn't all that important to me and now is. Just because it is different, doesn't mean it is wrong.
Yes, my mind has changed, I no longer think it's OK for me to live on bupe forever and ever just because I am afraid. I think it was Bam that posted your taper here and that is what I am trying to follow. Of course, let me also add, I've been on Bupe for 22 months. Not a short time.

I wish you the best, I hope your symptoms diminish quickly and you can keep up the great work.
Best,
Cheryl

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Unread 08-11-2008, 05:19 PM   #27
letgoletgod
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Congratulations SubZero!

I can't express to you how thankful I am for everyone who posts here, and especially those like you who have really taken the time to explain who, what, when and where. It has been a life saver for me as a family member.

My best to you and may God continue to bless you with health and wisdom.

sb
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Unread 08-11-2008, 06:54 PM   #28
Sub-Zero
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Hi,
Thanks to everyone for the support!! I really appreciate all of you wishing me well, it means a lot.

Day 7, didn’t sleep all that much last night, felt like I had a cup of coffee. I’m picking up some Ambien that my doc called in for 3 nights. I’ve noticed an increased libido, otherwise I feel about the same, no cravings. Oh also, all constipation is gone.

Just for the record if I end up being someone who needs a medication to stay addiction free I would have no problem going back on. I think too many people hurry up to become "drug free and loose sight of what is really important , ending the addiction. I’ve lost two friends who relapsed not too long after stopping treatment. It was soooo important for them to be "clean that they rushed their treatment, became drug free, and are dead now. It took me 7 years, it might take others 1 year and some others 20 years. How long they need to be on medication shouldn’t matter the only thing that is important is they stop the damaging behaviors of addiction, because that is what kills.

Sam, yes I should add exercise to my list of a total recovery plan, very important, even walking, anything that gets the blood flowing is better than sitting around.

If I could sum up in one word what I think is the most important part of treatment it would be - change. I felt I had to change who I was and how I thought about things. Addiction put me in a rut with habits that reminded me of drugs, changing my surroundings help change my thinking and that helped change my behavior. Change is recovery IMO. Some people will change faster or won’t need to change as much and won’t need medication as long. I needed 7 years to make these changes.

Thanks everyone for your support!!!
Sub
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Unread 08-11-2008, 07:03 PM   #29
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Congrats Sub Zero! I am glad to learn of someone jumping off at the 1 mg mark, as I plan (HOPE) to do so as well on August 20th. It seems like everyone else gets down to those tiny amounts: .50 and .25 mg etc. My sub doctor says all his pts jump at 2 mg and have a rough 4-5 days, and then it just gets better and better. I am down to 2 mgs now, and hope to go to 1 mg in a couple more days. Then I hope to jump like you did, on the 20th (as I said.) I have been taking sub since July '07.

I have to agree with Cheryl, at least IMO, if recovery doesn't come first in my life, everything else will suffer. AA has helped millions of people worldwide regain their destroyed lives and they are some of the happiest people I've ever met. That being said, of course there are many paths to sobriety and it's up to each individual to find the path that suits him/her.

Congrats again!

Ed. to add: Sub, Can I ask if you have ever cold turkeyed off opiates before, and was this jump off 1 mg sub harder or easier? How hard was it?? Were you able to work/function during the withdrawals?


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Unread 08-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #30
Sub-Zero
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Dobeygirl,
Thanks, I didn't jump at 1mg. I had been taking 1mg every other day for about a month, then every 3rd day for about 2 weeks, so my average was about 0.33mgs/day by the time i stopped.

I have quit CT before and there is NO comparison. When detoxing off full agonist opioids, I felt like I wanted to die, I was throwing up and had diarrhea for days. I couldn't eat or sleep and was so depressed I thought about suicide. So far this has been nothing, I haven't missed work or anything, and aside from being a little tired I feel fine.

I think my comment about not making recovery your life,may have been misunderstood by some, It was a warning to be careful not replace one compulsion with another. Meetings and all things recovery can become an addiction itself, yes a better addiction than one to chemicals, but still an addiction. Instead I was suggesting people engage in activities that they enjoy, like spending time with friends and family, while still having a well rounded recovery plan. Restoring balance in one's life to me is a major part of recovery.

Sub
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Unread 08-11-2008, 08:04 PM   #31
OhioMike
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Sub-Z,

Your opinion about over working recovery, be it 12 steps or in general, is so very true based on my experience. I have seen it play out many times where a person actually replaces active addiction, with their recovery program. The program becomes more than a means to an end. Early on, in the first six months, I almost did that. Simply living life again and enjoying it is so important. Good advice Sub-Z. And I have to ask, have you also been taking a few supplements to offset some of the sluggishness?

OMike
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Unread 08-11-2008, 08:08 PM   #32
Sub-Zero
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jdjk

Sub,

Kudos on your outstanding accomplishment which I'm sure Suture will shortly share. I suspect that this accomplishment was due in no small part to "listening to your body." If one cuts thru all the mental BS (i.e. preconceived notions, irrational fears, etc) and truly listens to their body success is bound to happen. The ultimate weaning authority is your body not any other entity. Incidentally, I'm sure that your decision to continue to frequent this site will benefit all.
Thanks! Yes, my body would tell me when I was tapering too fast, so I would slow down or back up a little. I also found if I was under stress I couldn't taper as fast. When I eliminated stressful things in my life, I could taper again. Some decreases were less noticeable than others. Going from 16mgs to 6mgs was pretty easy, then i found I had to go slower to stay comfortable. Not having a deadline was helpful to me. I was also lucky to have a good therapist who taught me how to recondition my mind and deal with things differently.
Sub
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Unread 08-11-2008, 08:15 PM   #33
Sub-Zero
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by OhioMike

Sub-Z,

Your opinion about over working recovery, be it 12 steps or in general, is so very true based on my experience. I have seen it play out many times where a person actually replaces active addiction, with their recovery program. The program becomes more than a means to an end. Early on, in the first six months, I almost did that. Simply living life again and enjoying it is so important. Good advice Sub-Z. And I have to ask, have you also been taking a few supplements to offset some of the sluggishness?

OMike
I almost did too. In the beginning it might not be so bad to immerse yourself in your recovery, if it keeps you from relapsing. But after a while I found I was neglecting important things in my life, like my family, in favor of my recovery program (which for me was reading and counseling, not so much meetings) But I realized my recovery program was standing in the way of what it was supposed to bring me closer too, my happiness and quality of life.
Sub
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Unread 08-11-2008, 09:24 PM   #34
Sam Bailey
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Hey Sub-Zero,

Again, congratulations on your Sub-Jump.

Your comment, "restoring balance to one's life...is a major part of recovery" is 100% correct. In Active Addiction, the addict is, in fact, completely OUT of balance. Certainly this addict's life was six-ways-from-sideways.

However, to the point of this post.

Dobeygirl?

For what it's worth, please be extremely cautious about jumping from 1mg of Sub (a day), especially since you've been on Sub for (what?) more than a year...and probably, during that time, at even higher doses?

Oh sure, it can be done. I have a good cyber-friend on another site who jumped at 2mgs...and survived! Now, today, she is completely drug free, addiction free...and due to her terrific, uh, personal habits, she's PAWS free, too! In fact, she never suffered a single day of PAWS.

As I have not.

But I digress.

My friend is tough, but still, she went through hell-on-a-rail with her 2mgs a day jump.

Even 1mg is, IMO, too high. Unless, for some reason, one MUST jump, why in hades do it? Oh and don't forget, Sub-Zero did NOT jump from 1mg a day. She jumped from 1mg every three days.

Bottom line: There are lots of folks who claim to know Sub better than, well---lots of other folks. Maybe they do. Maybe they do not.

What I know is based only on my experience...and a few anecdotal tales. And THIS is the experience I know:

I know, after nearly 3 years on Sub Maintenance, that, in my final year+, tapering down from 2mgs a day, to 1.5 mgs a day, to 1.0 mg a day (for several months) then to .50 mg a day, to every other day dosing, to every third day dosing...allowed me a painless Jump Off the Sub Train.

In fact, I suffered no negative effects at all.

I won't re-re-repeat my entire story (again...thank God for small favors), but I also had no, not even one, problem during my Sub experience. Unlike what some (so-called) experts say, Sub never once "turned on" me, it never stopped working for me, it never caused me depression, it never made me feel loopy, it never...well, blah blah blah and blah.

But then, that was me.

However Dobergirl, I worked really, really hard to do what I believed were the right things, the right ways to get and, God willing, to stay clean. From Sub...and from all dope.

You can do it too. I mean, why not? Of course you can do it.

But please, give yourself the best chance possible...and do it the right way.

I know that if I had jumped too soon, I would have leaped straight back in the g.d. dope darkness and would have, once again, been doing battle with those same drug-demons that very nearly destroyed my life.

This I believe.

But then, as I've said---that's just me.

best,

sam b
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Unread 08-11-2008, 11:00 PM   #35
Mike
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sub-Zero

About a year ago I decided to slowly taper with plans to stop if it got uncomfortable, after reading a post from Mike. ........

You have all been very helpful to me throughout the entire process. thank you all especially those of you who have tapered and move on with your lives, like Mike, Sam and Stacey.
That's great Sub!!! That is exactly how it went with me too, once I started forgetting my dose I knew the compulsion was gone and I would be able to keep the addiction in remission without medication. I had already decided that I would stay on for life, but as I went lower and lower and then started forgetting, I figured I had changed enough to take a stab at it. I felt tired too, but no big deal, maybe if I never knew what real withdrawal was I would have complained more, but like you, I knew how bad it could be.

I'm glad to hear you are going back to counseling for this transition and sticking around here for support. It's nice to have extra help now just in case you need it but just knowing its there I think will help a lot.

It's funny how it works. At first we have to try so hard to suppress the cravings, then as we make changes, the cravings go away and we forget that whole part of our lives. for me right now it feels like it was someone else who was addicted. I never have cravings or even fleeting thoughts of drugs anymore, I'm a completely different person.

Like you've pointed out and has been said here for years that the medication is only a small part of it. It's all of the other things that change us and take us away from the compulsive behaviors that led us to addiction. Good for you!!
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Unread 08-11-2008, 11:25 PM   #36
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These posts are great and so motivating. This thread, with others who have done it, prove many misconceptions wrong is just awesome. So much hope, so much good advice and suggestions to help us learn how to use Sub in a productive fashion and how to navigate through recovery. I'm getting a buzz reading it. Really good stuff, thank all of you and Sub-Z keep up the good work!

OMike
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Unread 08-11-2008, 11:42 PM   #37
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SUB!

I am !!!!! for you! As Omike said, this thread is what it's all about.

Sub, you have been a HUGE inspiration to me as well. Your pragmatic, no BS sharing has always made me feel...safe.

You have my deepest respect and admiration.

CONGRATS!!

GG
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Unread 08-11-2008, 11:56 PM   #38
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Ditto what GG said!
Sub-Z
I hope to follow in your footsteps. Just knowing it can be done and that there is a pattern of how it's done by the people who are successful. You and a lot of people on this site are my role models for recovery and give me hope/strength/belief/encouragement. I also learn from the not so successful because there is also a pattern.

Thank You
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Unread 08-12-2008, 02:25 AM   #39
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Hey Sub, I just had a quick question for you. It seems like you have done it! First of all congrats! Good Job... I mylsef have reached day 15 today. So yay for me. I am on 3 pils a day (8 2mg). I was wondering, what dose did you start out on? It seems like .5 or even 1 or 2 mg are very,very small. At this point with me being on 24 mgs, I do not see myself tappering anytime soon (with all the stress, school starting,etc). But, do you have any really good advice for a 25 year old newbie to Suboxone? You seem like you would have alot of good advice! Hope to hear from ya soon. God Bless,
Crystal
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Unread 08-12-2008, 12:36 PM   #40
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Thanks Sunny1, GG, Crystal, OhioMike, Mike and sam and everyone else, your comments mean a lot, especially now when I'm in this transition and am not 100% sure what to expect. But so far (Day 8) so good. I took an Ambien last night (doctor prescribed) and slept a good 7 hours!!

Crystal, my advice would be to make the medication a small part of your recovery plan, try not to dwell on it, take it once a day (if you can)in the morning and forget about it. Focus on making long lasting changes in your life that will separate you from the compulsive behaviors and habits you had while addicted. I started at 24mgs too, then went to 16mgs in one shot after about a month, I stayed there for along time, then slowly tapered down as my body allowed me too, but only after I eliminated stress in my life and things that would make me depressed or anxious. I also learned how to deal with those things better and not to automatically reach for drugs. After a while (a long while for me) I found drugs didn't even cross my mind. Any pleasure was forgotten and overshadowed by all of the misery addiction brought. People who obsess over every drop in dose or worry too much about tapering, don't seem to do well. The ones who make other things in life their priority seem to do better.

My attitude was, if I needed a medication to keep my addiction in remission so what, its worth it, if I could do it without medication better yet, either way no big deal, the main thing is that the addiction is and stays in remission.

Sub

PS. I'm a guy...I just checked so I'm sure.
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Unread 08-12-2008, 12:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
quote:My attitude was, if I needed a medication to keep my addiction in remission so what, its worth it, if I could do it without medication better yet, either way no big deal, the main thing is that the addiction is and stays in remission.

Amen, it's just as simple as that!



Quote:
quote:PS. I'm a guy...I just checked so I'm sure.
hahaha ........ Sub didn't make any changes!
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Unread 08-12-2008, 01:31 PM   #42
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Subzero said==Just for the record if I end up being someone who needs a medication to stay addiction free I would have no problem going back on.

That has been my thoughts too,,,I think it would be helpful to anyone on sub if thier doctor said ,,ok,,we'll try and taper you off if you both agree its time,,,but,,with an option of going back on if you dont succeed and relapse and fall back into your old life.
If patients knew they had a backup plan with sub i believe they wouldnt have that fear and they would attempt a full recovery w/o sub sooner.
Just a thought.


Sam said====Bottom line: There are lots of folks who claim to know Sub better than, well---lots of other folks. Maybe they do. Maybe they do not.

and then he went on to speak "of his experience",,and that is what i rely on,,more than if someone is speaking of studies about sub.
I could be wrong but i personally feel that over time i have learned to be able to know about certain people and trust them to be honest.,,sure i could be wrong sometimes and believe a bunch of BS,,but you guys know what i mean,,for instance,,and i dont mean to leave anyone out but I believe most anything Sam or Connie says.,,and even if i was wrong they have never said anything that would be hurtful to me even if it wasnt true.

Tattoo Tommy


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Unread 08-12-2008, 08:10 PM   #43
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Well, thanks so much for the insight. That means alot to me, and makes all the world of sense. I think you are right Sub about not obbsesing over your "dose". I mean at first, yeah I did. I mean now, sometimes I will even forget my other dose from the morning. See, what I did was, I was supposed to take two in the morning and one at 5pm,(8 2mg) a day.About 5 days or so ago, I thought, I have to figure something out because I am getting way to tired right away in the morning and I felt like crap all day long. Now, I take 1 in the morning...If I need it and then I'll take the other one around 1 or 2pm. Then, at 5pm ( which most of the time by then I need it with all the stress Ive been having dealt), I take that and I am ok throughout the night. It is getting better though. At night time around 8pm or so, I would start to get cravings, but then I relized that was around the time the phone would ring and it would be my mom and she would want to go out and drink or do something. I have found a way to deal with that, and to make sure I am busy doing something during the evening. So, it will just take time and I am sure I will make it....As a matter of fact, I am bound and determined to do just that! But, you are def someone to look up to for advice and support. One day, I will post something and it will say I am done, but still around to always help! That day is coming, it will take time though. I figure, if I have dealt with this problem for this long, and I finally got help to get clean, it might take a bit to stay that way,lol.Also, with school starting at the end of Aug, and with counseling (from the right person,lol. Read my other blog.my my.lol) and just stay focused on what is important. And also, get things better and straight with the family, I will be more at ease, and not so stressed out. I think that will have a big part of me tappering off for good! But thanks again and I will update soon enough. Till then, God Bless,
Crystal
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Unread 08-12-2008, 08:23 PM   #44
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I checked, too. He really is a guy......

jk...

Stace
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Unread 08-14-2008, 04:23 PM   #45
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update: Day 10. Been sleeping much better, didn't need the Ambien last night, I think I'm all set now. No cravings or anything, I really don't feel much different.
Sub
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Unread 08-14-2008, 04:28 PM   #46
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Sub-Z, that's GREAT.

How is your energy level?

OMike
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Unread 08-14-2008, 04:37 PM   #47
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Better, it was down for a few days but I'm not sure if that was withdrawal or lack of sleep (or both) I feel just about normal now.
Sub
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Unread 08-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #48
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Very cool Sub-Zero. It should be all good from here on out. Congrats!

Beams! -Mary
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Unread 08-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #49
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Great job Sub-zero! Thank you for helping others here for so long and committing to staying even after you've tapered. Thanks.
Tim
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Unread 08-16-2008, 09:28 PM   #50
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sub,
it really gives ppl like me hope to hear a great story like yours!!! Pls keep us updated! Did u find eating well & exercise helped u also? Also if u dont mind me asking, what was your doc? How much & how long were u on it?
congrats for a amazing & pain free transition!
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