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Unread 07-17-2008, 03:35 PM   #1
sharestoys
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Default Sam Bailey

Can you post your info about tapering and jumping off.. I dig your posts and would like to learn more about you. (not that I dont dig every ones posts )
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Unread 07-17-2008, 03:51 PM   #2
Mary
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Hey what about my posts!! LOL[]

Big tapering beams to you sharestoys! -Mary
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Unread 07-18-2008, 12:46 AM   #3
Sam Bailey
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Hey Shares,

Thank you for your compliments...very kind of you.

I'm delighted to explain, best I can, my entire(?) experience with my (successful) Sub taper and jump. I'll (also) do my best to give you, "The Reader's Digest Condensed Version."

Oh, man!

However, may I pass until tomorrow? Truth is, my son's here, and though he's currently pumping iron in the backyard, he'll be in soon...and I want to spend the evening with him.

So tomorrow it will be, okay?

Again, thanks for your kind thoughts.

Oh, and Mary? Your "beaming" posts are nothin' short of...of brilliant. Bright 'n sparkling? Okay, darned good, for sure. Ha!

best,

sam
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Unread 07-18-2008, 12:48 PM   #4
So.Cal.
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Sam, Sam, Sam,,,Believable??,Ahhh,maybe.,,,Loveable?,Ooooof course!!lol.
TattooTommy

That outta get him talkin.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 01:06 PM   #5
Mary
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sam Bailey

....

Oh, and Mary? Your "beaming" posts are nothin' short of...of brilliant. Bright 'n sparkling? Okay, darned good, for sure. Ha!

best,

sam
LOL! Aw shucks Sam, you're the bestest. Have a great time with your son.

Big brilliant, bright 'n sparkling beams to you! -Mary
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Unread 07-18-2008, 01:07 PM   #6
Sam Bailey
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Hey Tommy,

A little too much coffee for you this early a.m.?

Hmmmmm.

What, exactly, are you trying to say, Tom?

best,

sam b
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:38 PM   #7
sharestoys
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Ms. Mary - everyone loves you and your posts.

Sure Sam, Take your time..
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:42 PM   #8
So.Cal.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sam Bailey

Hey Tommy,

A little too much coffee for you this early a.m.?

Hmmmmm.

What, exactly, are you trying to say, Tom?

best,

sam b
Nothin!!,,just messin with ya!!lol,,,what?,,you aint in the mood?lol

TT
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Unread 07-18-2008, 02:56 PM   #9
So.Cal.
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Maybe one cup too many!!,,but hey,,check this out,,,didnt really wanna brag till i knew i was gonna hang in but this is day 10 of makin a comeback!,,I just finished my workout,,and as James B say,"I feeeeel good!!!"
I go across the street to the HS and walk/jog for about an hour and im breathin in places i havent for a long time!,then i come home and do a quick work out with wieghts.
This is commin on after three weeks of despair/deppression from hell!!Even with the phone as low as it would go , whenever it rang i jumped 10 ft!,,I felt my muscles atrofied(sp) and my work out was getting off the couch and pacing the livingroom for five minutes!,,But now im ready for the octagon!!Yea man ,Im a hog!!
Wait a minute,,speakin of hog,,im seriously hijacking this thread and im sorry !,,Carry on,,pretend im not here!!
Tattoo Tommy
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Unread 07-21-2008, 02:33 AM   #10
sharestoys
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Guess Sam never had time..
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Unread 07-21-2008, 04:59 AM   #11
Sam Bailey
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Hey Shares,

Sheesh, what an imbecile! Me, I mean. I, like, totally zoned re: your question, Shares. Big apology!

Anyway.

OK. Here's that Reader's Digest (Very) Condensed Version: As I've mentioned several times, I've been battling my dope-demon for 20+ years...and I've detoxed, "recovered" and, eventually, I always, relapsed right back to dope.

Until this 3rd go-round with Sub. This time I spent nearly 3-years on the medication. But this time, I did it correctly.

Like always, I began on 16+mgs of Sub a day...and, as always, easily tapered down to 12, then 8, then 6, then 4, then 2mgs a day. 2 mgs was, for me, an ideal---Maintenance Dose. I was perfectly comfortable, well-balanced and, so far as I, and my family, could tell, I was sharp and very clear-headed.

I was also completely free of my wretched Active Addiction.

Now, I COULD spin a whole OTHER story about how much my life improved (and it did!), physically, mentally and spiritually. But, nope, that's not for this tale.

This is about my taper and jump.

So, after a little more than a year on 2mgs a day, I began a SLOW taper down, cutting, literally, .25mgs off my dose each taper-time. I don't have an exact record of time and dose, etc., but I ended up going down from 2mgs, to 1.5, to 1.25, to 1.0, to .75, to .50...and I stayed with each for a while, especially the .50 mgs. This process took me...about 6 months. Something like that.

Was it always easy, without any queasy, unsettling, w/d-like effects? Nah. Nope. No way. Every time I chipped off a little more Sub, I felt, for a day or so, a little sideways. Physical? Yes, I believe so. Mental? No question about it. But still, NOT bad at all...and very tolerable. Then after 2-3 days, I was full-speed ahead.

In MY opinion, what I did during this entire time that was KEY to everything was (and I write about it often)..."Vigorous Exercise." Nope, not an easy 2 mile jog 3-4 times a week. I'm talking about strenuous(!), hardass workouts! For me, it was running 6-7 miles a day, every day. One rest/easy day every 8-9 days. Sweat like hades! Respiration extreme. Hard, heart-pounding, challenging exercise! Supplemented by (some) upper body muscle work, including lots of sit-ups, push-ups, pull-ups.

Don't misunderstand. I'm not suggesting going insane, like some, well---drug addict looking for drugs (ha!). But, seriously, I am talking about "Vigorous Exercise."

So...for the past several months, I was dosing on .50/.25 mgs a day, then I began to alternate days...until I was dosing (only) every third day.

Oh yeah---with all that extremely strict dosing (no spiking and NO picking up, ever!), I made certain that I...OK, I'm lying...I did my BEST to eat well and get decent rest.

Then, about a month ago, I jumped. And folks, I'm OK. Better than OK, actually. I suffered no withdrawals...I have no cravings...and, so far, the concept of PAWS is, to me, an absolute myth. Could I (soon?) be surprised with SOME kind of ill effect, since there MIGHT be some Sub still in my system? Yes, that's possible...though I can't imagine there's much, if any!, actually coursing through ol Sam's veins.

And that's it.

For better or worse...and for me? Far better.

Not an especially motivating tale, I know. More a list, I guess. Nonetheless, this regime worked for me...I will not (yet!) claim to be healed. Yet, I know, as much as I can possibly know, I am healing---brain, body, spirit and soul.

Edited to add: I have said this many times. And since I've just summarized my jump off the Sub-Train, I want to be certain this fact is included, again: After nearly 3 years on Sub Maintenance, the medication NEVER stopped working for me...never, not once(!), turned on me...never produced dysphoria, malaise or depression...never produced ANY of those negative effects that some sites/people claim is inevitable. It is not inevitable.

Sure, perhaps that does happen to (some) other people. However, it did NOT happen to me.

Just for the record.


best,

sam b
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Unread 07-21-2008, 10:15 AM   #12
NancyB
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Hi Sam! Congratulations on being addiction and medication-free for a month!!

I'm so glad it worked so well for you.

Thanks for sharing and hanging around. You're a true inspiration to many.

Nancy
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Unread 07-21-2008, 11:23 AM   #13
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Sam! Congrats! That's a really inspiring story!! I too, have been battling my h addiction for a long time. At first I'd kick, relapse, kick, relapse.then about 13 yrs ago just accepted it as my life. But u have really made me believe that it IS possible. Thank you.
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Unread 07-21-2008, 11:34 AM   #14
gratefulgirl
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Hey Sam,

LOVED your post, what a great way to start a Monday morning! V. inspiring.

I'm at 2...been on sub for 8 months, starting at 12. I am planning on tapering off in the next 4 months and your plan gives me strength! My habit was up to 10 hydros a day for at least 3 years. Since sub, I have been working a stringent recovery program, so I am hoping that a sub-tx of a year is realistic for me.

The rigorous excercise part is a rough one...I don't love it and do it purely out of vanity...but I'm going to try to step it up a bit during this taper.

Thanks again, Sam!

GG
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Unread 07-21-2008, 01:34 PM   #15
Mary
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Hey Sam, Same here. Sub NEVER stopped working for me. It did what it was supposed to, and I wasn't looking for anything more. It stopped the WDs and cravings so I could my gig and straighten stuff out. After 2 years, I still haven't seen PAWS. You get out of it what you put into it.

Big giant beam hug to you! -Mary
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Unread 07-21-2008, 08:27 PM   #16
jdjk
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Sam (and others) always enjoy reading your posts.

IMO the key to tapering (and surviving the dreaded "terminal wean") is to listen to your body. Whereas children listen to their bodies, we adults, for some reason, ignore the messages. In general if you feel too uncomfortable then re-evaluate your weaning schedule. You should only experience mild symptoms that should last a few days. Go low & slow.

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Unread 07-21-2008, 09:32 PM   #17
OhioMike
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Sam, your story is a valuable one and the lessons in as well. Though there will always be those who wish to cast doubt on the success stories here, even if they try to do it in a non threatening way, they cannot change true success! That is why this is a place for learning and educating ones self in all aspects of recovery. That is why rational and reasonable is what lasts on these boards. We all of us can only show the way, if they choose to not take it, it is not our fault when they yell and curse in misery.

Keep sharing Sam and thank you, thank you for doing the important work. Your story, as with Mary's, Mike's, Stacey's, Cally's and others inspire me each time I read them or am reminded of them

OMike
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Unread 07-22-2008, 01:01 AM   #18
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Sam, thank you so very much for sharing your tale of recovery. It carries a message of hope for everyone.

~josie
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Unread 07-22-2008, 02:04 AM   #19
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I've read it before but enjoyed it for the second time around! Loved the part about the exercise - very motivating to get back out there. Gratefulgirl, if you see this, I had a habit very similar to yours. My highest has been 5 of sub/day for about 4 months now. It's funny how people can use/need such different doses.. I swear I'll never figure this stuff out but I'm trying hard NOT to try and figure it out! Annie
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Unread 07-22-2008, 03:48 AM   #20
gratefulgirl
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Hi Annie,

I know what you mean...i was started on 12 but that only lasted for the leveling phase (less than a week). Then I was at 8 for the most time...recently went to 6,4...the jump to 2 was hard and now not looking forward to the next. I would rather have been you, starting low..by now I may be off!!

Yes, too much thinking about the sub itself is pointless! Thinking about life and living and enjoying it with a clear head...free of the compulsion of addiction...that is what keeps me inspired!!

GG
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Unread 07-22-2008, 11:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gratefulgirl


Yes, too much thinking about the sub itself is pointless! Thinking about life and living and enjoying it with a clear head...

GG
A very very important point. IMO "brain changes"/healing occurs faster when life normalizes and prior opiate history begins to occupy an insignificant part of your consciousness.
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Unread 07-22-2008, 01:14 PM   #22
gratefulgirl
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jdjk, thank you...i have worked hard to maintain this way of thinking. i must admit, sometimes when life...happens...i become acutely aware of how uncomfortable I am with no 'chemical cushion' to rest on. the good news is, i would never consider, because of the horror of the nature of the addictive behavior, using. the bad news is, as much as i have been working a recovery plan, it's far from over...i will be working on keeping this disease in remission forever, probably. it's humbling.

thanks for your thoughts,

GG
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Unread 07-22-2008, 04:18 PM   #23
Mary
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Hey GG, it is a humbling disease. I found that over thinking it can really slow down a taper. Once I realized that, it was pretty easy. Yeah, we'll have those moments of 'damn, where's my H (or whatever)', but they pass quickly when you remind yourself of where it would bring you or better yet, remind yourself of how far you've come, that's a more positive gig.

Big bunches of yellow beams coming your way! -Mary


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Unread 07-22-2008, 05:04 PM   #24
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Sam and Mary, ditto!

Prior to choosing Suboxone as one of my recovery tools, I was informed by some that if I stayed on it for any extended period, that it would turn on me and I would have to deal with various problems. It has been 31 months and other than some of the normal side effects, I have not had any real set backs and it certainly has not turned on me. Also, it has not stopped working, as they told me it would. It works just as good today, as it did 31 months ago.

I began at 16mg, was moved up very briefly to 20mg and since last fall I have been at 1mg or less per day.

Prior to beginning Suboxone Therapy I was informed that it would stop the w/d symptoms and the cravings. It did that 31 months ago and it is still doing that today. I did not expect this medication to do any more than that or frankly any less. It has preformed as marketed.

My mind is not foggy, I do not feel high or buzzed. I feel like I am living my life without being a slave to active addiction and without all of the problems that entails.

Each morning I take my Suboxone, then my blood pressure medication and my vitamins. Often times I forget and end up only taking my BP and vitamins later in the day. As I do not like to take Sub later in the day.

I do not make Sub a priority and never have. It is actually the least important focal point for me in my personal recovery. Because I do suffer from chronic pain issues, I have chose to hold at 1mg because when I truly need it, on my bad days, I can dose with it and get help with pain relief. As I slowly make other health changes, my use of Suboxone for pain relief is slowly decreasing. It is my hope that some day I will not need it for that. However, until and if that day comes, if a narcotic is required, I would much rather it be a couple milligrams of Suboxone now and then, than handfuls of vicodin all day long, every day!

Over the past 31 months I have been blessed with being able to work closely with others who use Suboxone as a recovery tool. It has been very educational and it has helped my personal recovery greatly. One very important thing stands out. Those who take personal responsibility and truly work a full recovery plan each day, can and do succeed. Along with that, those who focus on the good that each day brings and those who stay positive can and do succeed.

Suboxone in reality is only a very, very small part of ones recovery process and actually the easiest to manage. It's simple, stay on the lowest workable dose, at all times and treat it as a medication, not a Drug of Choice! By doing this, your dose will always reduce throughout your recovery process.

OMike
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Unread 07-22-2008, 06:23 PM   #25
Mike
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jdjk

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gratefulgirl


Yes, too much thinking about the sub itself is pointless! Thinking about life and living and enjoying it with a clear head...

GG
A very very important point. IMO "brain changes"/healing occurs faster when life normalizes and prior opiate history begins to occupy an insignificant part of your consciousness.
I totally agree, i feel that is exactly what happened to me and why I was able to succeed. I often wonder if I obsessed about recovery itself too much or made "recovery" my lifestyle, if I would have normalized enough to stop.
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Unread 07-22-2008, 07:20 PM   #26
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I'm still new on Sub. but my basic plan (b/c my goal is to be off the Suboxone eventually) is that
#1 I need to immerse myself in living, forget about the Suboxone(for the most part) and just live. I'm not going to obsess about the Sub. just live my life as normal and get on with it. Let things take their natural course.
#2 Exercise
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Unread 07-22-2008, 07:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sunny1

I'm still new on Sub. but my basic plan (b/c my goal is to be off the Suboxone eventually) is that
#1 I need to immerse myself in living, forget about the Suboxone(for the most part) and just live. I'm not going to obsess about the Sub. just live my life as normal and get on with it. Let things take their natural course.
#2 Exercise
I think that is a good plan, like with Maslow's dogs we are reconditioning ourselves, so constant reminders of active addiction (like fighting cravings) keep us from making progress. You still have to think about it enough to create strategies for recovery, but filling your live with non-drug related activities and exercise is great. I found staying very busy helped me.
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Unread 07-22-2008, 07:57 PM   #28
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Sam - your story is inspiring. I'm just getting back to those vigorous workouts. They're not at the complete kick-ass level just yet, but I'm getting there. Congrats on your progress!
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Unread 07-22-2008, 11:01 PM   #29
Warrior_Ali
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Sam Bailey,

how did u taper from the higher doses if u dont mind saying, was it something like 2mgs by month? or weekly? and by the way am happy for u being clean and giving us hope. Thanks.
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Unread 07-24-2008, 02:55 AM   #30
gratefulgirl
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Mike, I appreciate your comments...I appreciate ALL of your posts, and you are very inspiring. I always think of you when I worry if I will ever taper off. You and of course...

Mary, Mary, i miss you, girl! Yes, this is one hard gig indeed. BUT, you are right, the feelings are fleeting and the horrible memories and the idea of messing up all of my hard work JOLT me back to being proud of myself and grateful for where I am today...whatever the mood. Thanks for the yellow beams, you know they're my very fave...

And say Nancy...do you see what I'm saying (one of my email questions) in this post at all? It's not the first by any stretch...

GG
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Unread 07-24-2008, 03:14 AM   #31
flier1
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Everyone who has tapered off successfully and has done the program the right way, I applaud you, I myself am still at 2mgs every other day, but as OHMIKE has mentioned, in 21 months Sub has never "turned on me" I am the same as I was when I started at the beginning at 16mgs. (well actually better"

I am also to the point where life is the most important thing to me, where as in the beginning I was even doubting that becasue I was on the brink of not wanting to live anymore, Sub is a medication that has gotten me to this point and for that I am so thankful.

As someone said above, I listen to my body and when it tells me that I am ready, then I will be but until then I dont stress about it.

Take care and best wished to everyone who has inspired me so far in this great program.

Helen

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Unread 07-24-2008, 11:48 AM   #32
gratefulgirl
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Hi Helen, just had to take the chance to say hello and that I miss you on the other side.

GG
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Unread 07-24-2008, 11:48 AM   #33
gratefulgirl
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Hi Helen, just had to take the chance to say hello and that I miss you on the other side.

GG
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Unread 07-24-2008, 02:51 PM   #34
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gratefulgirl


And say Nancy...do you see what I'm saying (one of my email questions) in this post at all? It's not the first by any stretch...

GG
Hi GG, I absolutely see what you're saying. Yikes...


Nancy
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Unread 07-24-2008, 02:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by gratefulgirl


And say Nancy...do you see what I'm saying (one of my email questions) in this post at all? It's not the first by any stretch...

GG
Hi GG, I absolutely see what you're saying. Yikes...


Nancy
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Unread 07-24-2008, 11:01 PM   #36
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Nanc...good b/c I'd like to think I've left my paranoid days behind me!! I'll email you soon...you're the best!

GG
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Unread 07-24-2008, 11:17 PM   #37
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(Hi GG!!)
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Unread 07-24-2008, 11:47 PM   #38
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Sam, I've copied and saved your post about tapering off. You may not still be here when my son gets ready but I'll have your post to show him how you did it and show him it can be done. It may be 3 years or longer down the road, but I'll save it for him. Guess I better copy it off and save it that way, too, my 'puter may crash before he's ready. Smile.....
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Unread 07-25-2008, 12:47 AM   #39
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$tac-eeeeY! ((**))
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Unread 07-25-2008, 02:15 AM   #40
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Hey GG, hope things are well for you, if you want to email me Nancy can give you my email address

Helen
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