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Unread 05-16-2008, 07:04 PM   #1
wantlifeback
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Default "I have decided to taper sub this is 3rd day"

hi everyone..my post was getting lost so i decided to start a new one.As some know i lost my journal more then half way through my treatment..SO i will try to go off of my head..The reason i have decided to taper and stop sub is my body is just not right..Constipation, terrible migranes, etc..First off, i was on lortab,cough med,percocet,about 15 to 20 10mg a day for about 3 1/2 yrs....The first day i took sub was April 17th that day i took 6mgs....From there i played with my dosage and it was really all over the place, constipation hit first, and it was terrible..headaces, would take excedrin migrane, then imitrex..I have had a long history of them.. I will try to find all my post to make sure i am not missing anything important..I felt good on them as to no cravings really, minor chills...But better then i have felt for a while..Okay so from there my dose would get lower and then a little higher, i know i never went over 12 mgs a day..sometimes like 8 was fine too..
ok so migranes were getting so bad that i was going through imitrex like crazy..very foggy headed..fast forward to MAY 13th, i took 4mgs...then May 14th i took 2mg...may 15 i took 11/2 mg....Today i took 1mg...i don't plan on taking anymore today....the past 3 days i have chills really bad, that is one part of detox i could always handle, the one that kills me the most is RLS, sleep...Energy of course but that is a given..And through counsouling and reading I KNOW it was always a false energy so i know that will be the toughest yet easiest in my mind because i have come to terms with it..
Pupils as big as 2nd day of no lortabs...Right now it is 3 00 in the afternoon, slight dirreahea...These are the thing i plan to take through this...Lexapro 10mg, adivan or valium, not both...immodium...
Of course Hot baths..I plan on going to a meeting tonight and tommorrow night....I will keep ya'll posted..One more thing, if i see that i am craving to the point of a relapse, i will stay at what ever crumb i am on and keep going...Hopefully a crumb will not bring on a migrane..I want this more then i have wanted anything in my life, besides my 4 babies of course....
Please Pray for me as i do this taper to the end..
thanks
aimee
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Unread 05-16-2008, 07:52 PM   #2
Mike
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sorry it didn't work out. Do small doses like 1mg. cause you side effects too? I used to quit heroin about once a month, go through the withdrawal, but the longterm depression would always get me.
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Unread 05-16-2008, 08:00 PM   #3
wantlifeback
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Mike- No.Not yet..I have not had to take a imitrex in the last 3 days..Which is very good, compared to how many i was taking..The bad thing is 9 pills are almost 300.00 dollars( for imitrex) I have a hugh copay, but my insurance only allows me 9 per month...I am hoping the lexapro saves my butt with depression..I may have to go up to 20mgs, but i am willing to do that...Thanks
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Unread 05-16-2008, 08:18 PM   #4
wantlifeback
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There is something i have noticed today that i have not in a very long time...I have a sense of smell..Very strange..I am hoping by this sense of smell it will give me an appetite..just thought i would share that
aimee
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Unread 05-16-2008, 10:06 PM   #5
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HI, Aimee. I am going to throw out something - I have been trying to find a good anti-d Anti-anxiety that helps me for 13 years. I work with this really neat therapist who knows tons of about meds. He always hit is right on the nose for his clients, then recommends to the doctor. I told him about my racing thoughts/no sleep prob/anxiety andthat I wanted off Seroquel. He recommended "Doxepin" to me aka "Sinequan." The first night I took it, it was like a wave of relief, usually I lay in bed with anxiety in my chest and stomach, heart beating out of it's chest, thoughts racing. My anxiety is nearly gone! I have never tried a tryciclic anti-D before (?why. Neve recommended. The psych's I see always want people on the newer up to date EXPENSIVE ones! So I've always gone w/ what they recommend). The seroquel cost over 800 (I paid a 30 dollar copay) and the Doxepin, being that it is an "old school drug" is only a $6.00 copayment. I know meds don't work for everyone, obviously, but it may be something to talk to DR. about if Lex doesn't work out. I know you suffer about anxiety too. I have never felt so relaxed in my life and the sleep is excellent. THe anti-Depressant should effect hopefully will kick in soon. It's certainly worth a try if the Lexapro doesn't work out. Talk to your doc. When I told my psychiatrist I wanted to try it, that I had weaned of Seroquel, his eyes bugged out and he said Woah! I asked what that response was for and he said he hadn't had a request for that med EVER. I haven' regreted it a day in since. I am weaning off Xanax. So Sub is working for me for now (24mg/day at work days (bc of stress) and 16 on weekends. I,too, want to be off sub, but I am putting that on a "to do" list someday in the future. Luckily I don't have any side effects other than a headache somedays that goes away with either Tylenol or aspirin. The renew cleanse keeps me unconstipated. It is good, IMO, that you are realizing that sub is not for you, but I am interested in how you have come to that decision? (Not to talk you about of it, but to be an understanding listener) I am going to meetings two/aweek. but ALANON. BC that is the underlying root of the reason I checked on out opiates. I support you in whatever you need/want to do that is best for your emotional/physical/spriritual existence.
Thanks for listening and good luck! I'll be reading your posts.
Ember
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Unread 05-16-2008, 11:20 PM   #6
wantlifeback
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Ember--Thanks, I have been on the lexapro for a couple yrs and they have really worked well for me..I only take 10mgs, and my rx is for 20mg. So if i need i can go up to 20..
It is now 7 00, I have only taken 1/2mg. and i am ok..Now the anxity is pretty bad, but i am ok...Don't get me wrong i can't go out dancing...lol...but i did make it to my meeting...To answer your question--I really just have not felt right on this medicine..Dont' get me wrong at first i did, but the migranes, are too much to bare..In face, thank god i dont have to swallow my subs because i would have threw most of them up, and would be in fullw/d's a long time ago.At first it was just a nagging headache and tylenol would work fine then it just got worst and i was out of imitex, thent he last week was terrible...now i am also hoping that at this low of a dose, if it doesn't cause any migranes i can stick to it..But that is if my body can get adjusted, and i don't feel like this the whole time...Because i actually am in a little about minor w/d's minus the cravings....I can only function like this for so long, know what i mean??
But if the cravings kick in, i will have to choose the migrane..Dang this sucks...
thanks
aimee
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Unread 05-16-2008, 11:42 PM   #7
wantlifeback
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correction---I actually am in a little over minor, meaning over 5 on cows scale...SOrry not to easy to consintrate on typing..
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Unread 05-16-2008, 11:55 PM   #8
wantlifeback
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Corection again did the cows and i am a 12..can't seem to think...I will stop typing for the nite...LOL
I will update int he morning
aimee
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Unread 05-17-2008, 12:01 AM   #9
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Aimee --Is your doc willing to try the subutex? Have you thought maybe it's the nalaxone? I've read that everywhere. How long have you been on sub altogether? Do you think you can make it without going back to DOC? I know 12-step is helping you out. I do wonder though, if maybe the guilt of those meetings is contributing to your anxiety about getting off sub so fast. I personally know how they are in those meetings. Very judgmental, and you have to check in w/ Hi, I'm Ember, I'm an addict. What a label. (I know I know, we've gone there before). READERS- please please don't start the addict debate again on this thread.
But Aimee, I am wondering about that guilt factor from 12-step meetings. You just said your anxiety is pretty bad, do you think that is related to going through w/d's? Does your dr. know you are tapering and do you have a taper plan? From what I've gathered you are just taking sub prn to prevent w/d's. I've told my story, but I only stayed clean from opiates 3 months before I went back after trying sub out years ago. Opiates are such a "monkey on your back!" (I wonder where that term came from anway?) monkeys? If your doc knew you were going to go off, nearly cold turkey, maybe he/she would help you out with other meds to help go off sub (a benzo for a week or two?). You have a therapist I think I remember, right? What does the therapist think about your choice?
Please know that I am NOT trying to talk you out of going off sub if that is what you truly believe you need to do in your "Gut" aka wise mind. Have you made a pros and cons list? It would suck for you to be in all this w/d hell and then relapse, and then start sub all over again, which you implied would happen if you did have cravings again. I am so grateful to all the advice and support you have given me and I am trying to only return that to you, give you support. If you have a sponsor, is she objective enough to understand sub and help you make that decision? What is the sponsor's opinion? When do you see your doc next and what is your taper plan?

Ember
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Unread 05-17-2008, 12:44 AM   #10
wantlifeback
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Ember--I dont' mind typing it here , in case i can help anyone, or someone can help me..Ok, first it is 30 days today..My doctor does not know what i am doing because he is a idiot, a whole other story. But i do have a new one on monday, and plan to be honest with him, and print out my post to help ( if i can type right)..The anxiety is from the w/d's, they always get the best of me..I do have many benzo's...But i only take when i can't take it anymore, which i will have to take one to go to bed..I have a slight headache but nothing to bad..I did ask my doctor and he said he doesn't presribe that..now maybe the one on monday will..I will leave my options wide open..I dont have any quilt about the meetings or sub...honestly that has never bothered me..The biggest monkey well now it feels like oragnetane s/p? on my back to me was me chasing pills..I actually HATE that person..I DON'T want to be that person again..I have been through alot the last 2 yrs...I hemmeroraged for 12 hours internally and suffered so bad..I was not suppose to make it, and honestly no doctor can beleive that i did..So this may sound funny, but my higher power has kept me here for a reason..My 4 kids need me, and i need them..That is what gets me through this..They almost lost me once, and i never want them to feel that pain again..My counsuler supports my every dicission, and she has alot of faith in me, and i hold on to that..But i do check in with her on a daily basis..
i can handle the phsycal w/d's pretty well...And i think only because i have been through so much worst..It is only the cravings i worry about..
So right now i am taking it one day at a time, and on monday when i see my new doc, i will explain every thing..If he wants to try subtex i am 100% for it , if by mon. i am feeling better at lets say 1mg a day, or maybe 2 with no migrane i am ok with that too..Also i am out of imitrex so i am not going to push the dosage too high , and risk one..
I so appricate your concern, it means soooo much to me...
Hopefully tommorrow i can type better.
thanks again
hugs
aimee
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Unread 05-17-2008, 02:05 AM   #11
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Well, Aimee, last last bit of advice to you is since you have a new doc monday, why are you suffering with the w/d's now? And if you think you are not ready to be off-sub due to relapse, Beware. Because relapse is life threatening. I don't think it sounds funny that you are here for a reason. Many reasons! If your monkey has turned into an ape, it doesn't sound like you are ready to be facing the cravings, going back to drug-chasing quite yet. It has only been one month. I've got 35 days and if my doc were to move/die/dump me I would be F'd in a big way. I'm not one that wants to be on sub forever, but I won't think of going off for 12 months. That's my personal timeline.
So it's the side effects then, huh? Sorry for that. I hope you sleep well tonight and we can talk tomorrow.
Ember
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Unread 05-17-2008, 02:14 AM   #12
wantlifeback
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The only reason i am suffereing with w/d's now is because i am scared to take too much as i said ...I AM OUT OF IMITREX if i catch a migrane...I can't get anothe refill and it is not something u can buy off the streets
aimee
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Unread 05-17-2008, 04:00 AM   #13
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hi wlb, i think i have told you about the suboxone giving me SEVERE migraines, i was taking relpax everyday and 6 pills is $173.00!! i thought i was going to give up on sub too, the migraines were waking me early and it felt as if the top of my head was going to blow off, severe nausea, couldn't stand bright lights, motion, sounds, smells etc... i had to practically beg my dr. to switch to subutex and he finally did. he made me wait 3 days with nothing--no sub, and then the afternoon of the 3rd day i started the subutex. i have not had one migraine since!!! migraines are what started this whole nightmare addiction in the first place, so I KNOW what you are going through!! don't give up yet--many people can't take the naloxone--hopefully your new dr. will have enough sense to know that!! if you need my dr.s phone number (for your dr.) just let me know--maybe that will help if he knows other dr.s are doing it. immitrex never helped me at all--it was a total waste of $ for me but the relpax has been a godsend!! but i've not had to take it 1 time since i started the subutex!! you can e-mail me if you want, just let me know--nancy can give it to you--don't throw in the towel just yet!!
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Unread 05-17-2008, 05:08 AM   #14
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wlb, I wish you the best during your taper, it sounds like you've really gone through hell and back with those migraines! Ember brought up a great point, perhaps you should consult your Dr about possibly switching to Subutex. The Nalaxone in the Suboxone could quite possibly be the underlying cause of your migraines! You'll never know unless you try!

Also, if that is not an option, you may want to ask your doctor about possibly prescribing Clonidine, to help ease the withdrawal symptoms. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Clonidine, but it is a medication that is more commonly used for regulating blood pressure(amongst other things) , but in recent years there have been many clinical studies that have shown that it can help ease withdrawal symptoms in many people, to a more tolerable level.

The clonidine, in combination with the Lexipro for depression, and the Valium your already taking may be a very effective combo in helping you get through your taper/detox, that is if Subutex is not an option for you. Ask your Dr about it, he'll definitely be familiar with it. I hope you feel better!
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Unread 05-17-2008, 04:39 PM   #15
wantlifeback
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all---Thanks for all the advice, i really appreiciate it..I will talk to my new doc on monday about subtex...Kev--I do have clonodine, but i run really low blood pressure so i have to be very carefull with it..I do check my pressure alot...It is slighty high right now but not enough to take it..i slept well last night, except for a few times my legs, and arms jumped a bit..I took 1 mg around 10 this morning, and it helped extremely well, and NO MIGRAINE!! YAY! So far so good...
hugs to all
aimee
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Unread 05-18-2008, 06:11 PM   #16
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Just wanted to give an update..Today is sunday at 2 00...I am holding my dose at 1mg , today a sliver more..W/d symtoms are definelty there..One good thing is that i have been using the bathroom..No migrane, sleep is good..By w/d's i mean chills, but no sweats, pupils dilated, etc..No cravings..So that is a plus..But the best one is no migranes...Tommorrow i see my new doctor..I am praying that he will put me on subtex instead..Also i have been spitting out the liguid after it melts..I also want to say that the w/d's are nothing compared to if lets say i was taking 15 lortabs and went down to 5 for 3 days...So i just really want to point that out..If that was the case i would be craving so bad and on the phone or streets looking for something..So this is 100% different..
After my doctors appt tommorrow i will let everyone know...
Thanks
aimee
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Unread 05-18-2008, 09:37 PM   #17
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Good luck Aimee. I hope your new doc will believe you that you need tex due to migraines. (My doctor told me the first day (And I didn't even ASK) "I won't prescribe subutex.") I think these new docs out there read these warnings and get scared by them, but don't realize everyone is different.
I'm glad you're not in relapse mode. I'm having some struggles bc my husband just "copped" a bunch of methadones and oxy's and it is driving me up the treee, but not to the point I would take any. I guess that would be part of sub being a "strong" medicine.
Take care, I'll be checking tomorrow at work!
Ember
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Unread 05-18-2008, 11:14 PM   #18
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ember, does your husband realize how HORRIBLE it is for you to have those pills in the house!?? i could not handle that, and it is WRONG of him to put that temptation under your nose!! has he thought about trying sub? i truly think one of us would have to leave if it was me, because i know i just couldn't put up with that!! i hope you stay strong!!
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Unread 05-19-2008, 01:46 AM   #19
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Ember if he really wanted you to get better he would have just not told you he scored and hid them from you, I had a friend who knew i was going thru recovery and kept calling me telling me that she had some perks and come over and get some, or she would call me when she was out asking me if I had any but she did this all the time and it was really hampering my recovery, the last straw is when she came over and I thought she got it, until she pulls out a bag of perks and started dividing them up and I told her to put them back and that if she could not understand what recovery means to please just leave and when she truly understood to call me, that was 15 months ago and have not heard a word from her since. But I WANTED THEM when I saw them but I didn't take any instead I asked her to go away, and we were friends for 10 years. I know you say you wont take them BUT you know they are there and now my question to you is, is it on your mind now? Do you think about them being there? If so tell him to put them where you cant see them or find them at all, it isn't fair to you....

God Bless Helen
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Unread 05-20-2008, 12:38 AM   #20
wantlifeback
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I went to the new doctor today and it didn't go to well..When i first got there, he told me he needed me to drug test and pee in a cup..I was totally ok with that, so after we talked , and after i explained everything , he said that he does not persribe just subtex..Then he said that i could not take klonopin with sub...Now i have went through benzo w/d's yrs ago, and it was terrible, and probably worst for me then all the times i c/t off of tons of opiates..But i do only take it maybe 3 times a week, or less if i really have too...He expects me to just get off, and didn't even mention a taper...Then i went on to tell him how many mgs i was on, because of the migranes, and he could not beleive i had dropped that much so fast and was not in full w/d's...He was a smart man, and alot better then my first doctor, he even told me my pupils were hugh...But i told him that the discomfort was bad, but not terrible and i know my body will get adjusted to this dose soon, and with having no migranes i am going to stay where i am at...And anyone here who has terrible migranes will understand exactly what i mean..I wouldn't wish migraines on anyone..So i did pay for the appt.
for the appt, and he said if i decided to stay with him, that he would give me a presription as soon as i ran out of the meds i have from the other doctor...Now i was very upset, but now that i have thought about it and talking to ember, i don't blame him because he has to do what he is suppose to...And maybe he doesn't beleive that i don't abuse klonopins..I don't know..So this is where i stand..Actually i am so confused i don't know where i stand, plus it has cost me a fortune so far...
any suggestions???
thanks
aimee
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Unread 05-20-2008, 02:01 AM   #21
wantlifeback
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guess no suggestions...LOL...i have none either, so confused and bummed out..
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Unread 05-20-2008, 02:12 AM   #22
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Hi - At 6 weeks I was still having headaches and nausea, I have a hx of migraines. I was on suboxone. Spitting alleviated some of the symptoms, but I did have to search to find a doctor to rx tex. My first doctor absolutely did not believe in adverse side effects or even spitting out the excess suboxone.
I then went to a second doctor, and left there completely frustrated and defeated, she was NOT going to rx tex, even though they had told me over the phone, to come in and talk to the doctor. Yes, money wasted, horrible feeling.

Finally, I found a doctor who not only believed me but was actually compassionate about the whole thing. Since being on subutex, I have not had any severe headaches or nausea.
Maybe you could put your concerns in the form provided for the matching system and see who responds and go from there. Keep trying and I wish you luck- take care, Isa
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Unread 05-20-2008, 02:26 AM   #23
wantlifeback
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ISA---THANKS so much, u gave me hope...I am 100 percent that this is what is causing my migranes, and i was having nausea bad, but didn't think of it connected....THANKS AGAIN---there is hope
Also what is the difference, i mean i know naltrone is so you don't shot up, but what is it that is so bad...I have been reading alot about it, and all i can find is it blocks opiates, and for alcoholics, but i thought the bup blocked it...Plus what does naltroxone have to do with alcohol?
so confusing
aimee
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Unread 05-20-2008, 02:48 AM   #24
wantlifeback
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flier, thanks, i just dont know anymore...lol..I have been losing so much weight on sub, and i don't need that as i was already 110, and now like 103...AT this lower dose no migranes, but since i did a pretty quick taper, my bowels finally moved and i was excited, but then they stopped again pretty bad...I swear i am just going out of my mind right now...I starting crying a while ago, because i am trying so hard to get clean and going to counsouling, really putting my heart and soul into this...And i am just so bummed out...I hate to keep bothering everyone with this poor me thing, because i am not usually like this...But i just dont' know what to do or think anymore..Crying again as i type...sorry..Could it be that this med is not for me??? I am taking vitamins, drinking tons of water, everything everyone told me for my bowels...Why?? I am really trying hard, like 110 percent i swear...Shoot i am even willing to go through all these w/d's just to not have a migrane because i have no imitrex and nothing else helps me...Again sorry, but i just had to let it out , or i was going to burst...So what do i do if it is not for me?
aimee
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Unread 05-20-2008, 02:49 AM   #25
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Hi Aimee, The naloxone is added to deter IV use. Both the bupe and the naloxone block opiates, all the Mikes and suture and others- can explain this more technically than me. To my knowledge, Naloxone does not have anything to do with alcohol, though there are older and new medications to treat alcohol misuse.

I gave it 6 weeks of trying to deal with my side effects, most did go away, the nausea and headaches persisted.And I had the melting thing down to a science, all I can say is that the tex helped.
It is always suggested to talk to your doctor, I can only tell you what worked for me, it is possible there may be an underlying issue,that you may have or was hidden by doc, so please keep that in mind. Take care : ) Isa
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Unread 05-20-2008, 03:58 PM   #26
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Hi, Aimee. I am so sorry you are still struggling with your physical symptoms. Hang on, one day at a time!!! I am confused, you think the migraines are from constipation? Have you tried that mirilax or whatever that is a prescription powder that stimulates the bowels and it's a guarantee (for me when using, and now sometimes) to make you "go." It's cheap, can you have one of your docs call that in for you?
Let us know!!!
I have faith for you, so have some too!!
Ember
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Unread 05-20-2008, 05:03 PM   #27
wantlifeback
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EMBER---Thanks, no i don't think the migranes are from the constipation...I think they are 2 bad side effects i am getting from this med..I just think it is not meant for everyone...Thanks for your concern, i really appriciate it
aimee
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Unread 05-20-2008, 10:46 PM   #28
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Called my first doctor, who is an idiot, but thought ok if i can get him to give me subtex, and it would help the migranes, then i can keep him, and use this forum for what i need that he can't give me...So called, and nope he doesn not persribe it...SO here i sit , thining wth am i going to do...
aimee
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Unread 05-24-2008, 01:52 PM   #29
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I was on the off topic side , so moved it to here...I have still not taking any bup....I ate a hugh breakfast...Thank goodness...My nausea is just about gone..I have zero cravings and feel great..Only a few chills...
thanks for everything...I really wish this med would not have made me so sick...Good luck to everyone
aimee
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Unread 05-24-2008, 01:56 PM   #30
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Aimee: Yeah for you! I have been writing on here about the 8hour course, and that docs need to learn that some people need the TEX. That is where I'm guessing they get the info. I remember one visit my doc said she won't prescribe it cuz people in Europe O.D'd.
Are you going to continue your quest for a subutex prescriber? What is your plan once you feel better?
Ember
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Unread 05-24-2008, 11:31 PM   #31
wantlifeback
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EMBER, and everyone, it is almost 8 pm, and i am still feeling fine...Slight chills, but not bad..Ember- i don't know what kind of plan i have..honestly there is no one here that gives subtex..In a way i dont' want to keep asking, because i may look like the addict that wants to shoot up sub or something..And that is sure not the case...All i know is i have not craved a pill, and will continue with thearpy, and meetings..I also thought about something last night..I once got on chantix to stop smoking, and it is some sort of blocker in the brain, the first few days i was like wow , i didn't even crave a cigerette..After about a week, i started getting migraines, and so nauseated that i was throwing up..I told my doctor and he said get off, and see what happens, sure enough it went away...Bad part is i am still smoking, and ready to fight that one next...But maybe it is a conicidence, i dont' know...
hugs
aimee
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Unread 05-24-2008, 11:46 PM   #32
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Amiee,

Your doing fine, I wouldn't consider SUBTEX now. The "slight chills" may mean you are getting a summer cold.

Go spend the day tomorrow doing something fun. Memorial Day weekend is full of silly things to do. You deserve some time to yourself.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 02:35 PM   #33
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Just wanted to update..Last night i woke up sweating, and RLS..Took hot bath..Man , i was taking a crumb, this stuff is so powerfull..I am not taking anymore of it..I just hope this is not the beginning of something bad..
aimee
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Unread 05-25-2008, 03:15 PM   #34
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If it says the half life is 37.5 hours...Does this mean that half of the sub will be out then and then another 37.5 hours for the rest?? Does it all stack up from the first day, when the doctor puts u on way to much?
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Unread 05-25-2008, 04:11 PM   #35
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The worst part of my tapper off suboxone was RLS. When I thought i was going to go cold turkey I asked my pcp for something for RLS. I think if it was not for that I could come off. I find that suboxone is a very strong medication. If I take to much I get headachs like horrible.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 04:51 PM   #36
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Amiee and all,

I have deleted my post because my examples were wrong. I should have done this sooner when Mike pointed it out.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 05:11 PM   #37
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This graph shows how blood levels stabilize
http://www.naabt.org/tl/16mgs-11day-37halflife.jpg
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Unread 05-25-2008, 05:15 PM   #38
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"It takes 37.5 hours for suboxone to completely leave your system." cally

Actually it takes 37.5 hours to have effectively half the dose still there, then after another 37 hours half of that and so on. there will be some bupe left even a week after the dose.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 05:33 PM   #39
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Thanks Mike,

I should not have posted that at all. I was trying to do a "Ball Park" kinda chart and I was wrong for attempting it. Thank you for correcting me.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 08:07 PM   #40
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SO confused, mike can u tell me about the half life on like 1mg...Thanks
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Unread 05-25-2008, 08:13 PM   #41
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The halflife is the same no matter the dose. 37 hours (average) after you take a dose 1/2 is left, another 37 hours 1/2 of that is left and so on.

This graph shows how much sub is left
http://www.naabt.org/tl/bupe_half-life-graph.jpg

(for 1mg divide Y axis numbers by 16)

What is it you are trying to figure out?

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Unread 05-25-2008, 08:19 PM   #42
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Aimee,
Withdrawal is caused by changes to our brains. These changes were happening slowly while you were taking opioids for 3.5 years. Without opioids, these brain changes cause withdrawal. To undo this you need to do a long slow taper so your brain can slowly adjust back to the way it was. Too fast and you will have withdrawal. You would feel the same way had you just stopped the drugs and never took the sub. In other words the sub isn't responsible for your withdrawal. If you just stopped you might feel bad for 2 weeks and most of it would clear up, based on your history. But that could be a painful 2 weeks and is why man people pick a slow taper with sub instead. It takes longer but it is comfortable.
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Unread 05-25-2008, 10:24 PM   #43
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I think i was on sub a total of 35 days...I honestly think there is a place for this pill....It is not for hydrocone( my doc) maybe unless u were taking like 40 a day instead of 20 like me..I have detoxed before i had heart trouble and it was bad but at least it lasted only 4 days...This is so much longer, and after reading and adding hours up, still got a long way to go..That is getting off at less then 1mg.
Also i think if someone has been on opiates for 10+years then sub may be the thing for them also...not just a few years...
AT first i was very sad i had to get off because of migranes, and nausea , now i see for me it was a blessing in disguise...
Even though i feel like crap, i will say i have no cravings for opiates or sub, and have them...I never want to feel this way again...
hope i make my meeting tonight, legs feel like they weigh a ton, and i weight 103 lbs...
hopefully tommorrow will be better
aimee
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:37 AM   #44
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did not make it to my meeting..tried to eat well, took a shower and hopefully sleep, and pray for a better day tommorrow..
I really dont' feel like i am getting any support here except for a few wishing me luck...But that's ok, at least it is like keeping a journal, and maybe help someone else
aimee
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Unread 05-26-2008, 03:03 AM   #45
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Hi,
I hope you stay well and keep us updated about ur progress. That's too bad u can't stay on due to side effects, but at least you came up with a plan. It sounds like you didn't think the Sub. was the right method for you. I would just try to stay as comfortable as possible for the next however long it takes to ride out the withdrawal. I'm not sure how that works with a short taper, if it's easier than going straight of the hydro.

Ps. I think a lot of people are enjoying the holiday weekend and not having time to post.

~Take care~
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Unread 05-26-2008, 03:42 AM   #46
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sunny---WOW thanks so much for the wishes...i can't seem to fall asleep, but i have no RLS, etc..So that is a plus..my head feels so much clearer in the last hour, i can't explain it..Yes the side effects were terrible, actualy worst then what i have been through weaning, and now....i lost alot of weight in a short time..But I am sure i will put it all back on and some, thanks again
aimee
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Unread 05-26-2008, 12:49 PM   #47
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Once i fell asleep i slept great...woke up and feel great..No fog feeling in my head, I am sure it is OVER, i can feel it...I just ate 3 hugh pancakes....So to me the w/d's dragged on for me but ONLY because I dropped so low so fast, because of side effects...But the syntoms were nothing compared to how intense c/t is from opiates..I hope that makes sense...My advice to anyone would be that to stay at the lowest dose possible...I was lucky that even at 1 mg i did not crave...Today i am flushing all pills!!!
I am done, and going to a meeting, i feel great!!!!
thanks everyone, and good luck on our journey
aimee
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:15 PM   #48
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WLB

I don't feel like you aren't getting support. You are journaling your experience and people are wishing you luck. You are doing something very unusual and brave and I feel like I'm just watching you go through it. It's not the typical experience and I guess I'm just not sure what you are looking for.

I think you made the right choice for you. Everyone is different. Sub is most certainly for the drug hydrocodone and any other opiate. It's not a drug specific medication. I'd hate for anyone reading this on hydrocodone deciding against sub treatment because of this. I'm here to say it does work.

Again, I'm sorry it wasn't for you. BUT it seems that you are doing well, all things considered.

You also must realize that you are still withdrawaling from your DOC and not just the sub. The withdrawal comes from the damage that's done to your brain over time and that's what you are feeling. Perhaps I can't express that for it to make sense.....

I do hope you keep talking here and share your experience. It's very valuable.

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Unread 05-27-2008, 12:56 AM   #49
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Stacey
i respect you opinon...As what i wrote was my opinon..i have detoxed two many times to count like most who get on sub..I really am not trying to discourage anyone, but just writing how i feel.
Now there is a difference i do notice , when i detoxed off of lortabs, after the physical stuff was over, i was still craving, and could not sleep..thoughts of getting more and how, constantly..and no energy..
I am sure now, i am done ( i hope so) and i still have no cravings, and such a clear head, that i can't explain..and energy is the same..
I want to make something clear also, I jumped really fast..I wish i knew exactly but somewhere from like 12mg to 3mgs and never went back up, so of course i knew why i was having chills, etc...BUT nothing bad enough to not work or take care of things..But that was my own fault not sub...Because of the side effects, it was best FOR ME ( IMO) ....If i were to have done that gradually , i know i would not have felt a thing..
Out of all of this, i had one nite of sweats, and RLS....And slept well last night...
I do not recommend anyone jumping like i did..But if i could of found a doctor to try subtex i would not have..i have read some have the same side effects as i did, but a very small percentage..
Again, this is my thoughts, my story..if i had to say anything is if i could do this kind of jump, and have one bad nite, then everyone can do this, and just go slow like everyone says..
again this is just me, i think one that one bad nite, i thought holly cow, this is going to last weeks(RLS,SWEATS) but it did not.
aimee
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Unread 05-27-2008, 01:00 AM   #50
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As I said before, you have a very valuable story to tell and I'm glad you are here to tell it. I hope you continue!

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