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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
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Default Kratom & Fibromyalgia

Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) is a leafy tree that grows from 3-15 meters tall. Its leaves contain mitragynine and are chewed as an opiate substitute and stimulant in Thailand and South-East Asia, primarily among the working class. It has a relatively long history of human use.
It is in the same family as coffee and the psychoactive plant Psychotria viridis. Other species in the Mitragyna genus are used medicinally in Africa, and also used for their wood.

Kratom is used for its psychoactive effects in its native region, with some use elsewhere in the world. In Southeast Asia the fresh leaves are usually chewed, often continuously, by workers or manual laborers seeking a numbing, stimulating effect. Elsewhere, the leaves are often made into a tea or extracted into water and then evaporated into a tar that can be swallowed. Kratom is not often smoked, although this method does provide some effect.
Kratom has many potential medicinal uses, for example as a low grade analgesic comparable to codeine or propoxyphene, as an alternative to methadone, and as a source of other chemicals with a wide range of beneficial activities which could be isolated from the psychoactive constituents.
Kratom's pharmacology shares some elements of the activity of other substances including opiates and yohimbine. The comparison to opiates is valid at doses high enough to produce these effects. Kratom has the ability to alleviate withdrawal in people dependent on opiates owing to the mu receptor agonism of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Kratom may cause constipation at these doses. It produces analgesia similar to weaker opiates such as codeine.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:51 PM   #2
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Did this help you thru the withdrawl before you started on sub? How long have you been on sub?

Yohimbine .. I bought an energy drink the other day that had that in it. I remember it from school...yohimbine is used to reverse the drug rompun (horse sed & analg).

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Unread 05-15-2008, 09:58 PM   #3
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This is the first Kratom post I have seen on this forum. I was weary about mentioning that item but glad you did.

I just want to relate what happen after I took Kratom and had a drug test.

I tried Kratom to see if it would help me cut back on the amount of methadone I was taking. I did this hoping to get my dose down before inducting with Sub. It did not work in easing my physical or mental wds. But the only thing I have found to ease methadone wds was more methadone. Sub I have heard can and has, if a person inducts properly. I didn't and paid one hell of a price for it.

On Sub induction day I still had Kratom in my system. The ONLY other opiate I had been taking was Methadone. A baseline drug test was done that first day. Of course, I tested positive for methadone. But, to my surprise, I also tested positive for a drug called hydromorphone. I have never seen that drug much less taken it.

The Kratom metabolized in my system as hydromorphone. No better than the Kratom worked and given how horrible that stuff tasted, I wish I had just went the straight hydromorphone route.

I have heard that Kratom does seem to help ease pain for those with very low opiate tolerances.

In the countries where these Kratom leaves originate, they have implemented some pretty tight controls over how they are used.

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Unread 05-15-2008, 10:08 PM   #4
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If you ever swallow too many pills and need to throw-up fast, drink some Kratom tea. Its the most consistently vomit-causing substance I have ever encountered. I tried this to try and stop withdrawals a couple weeks back and it never worked for me. Never stopped or even helped the withdrawals plus I threw up quite a few times that night.
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Unread 05-15-2008, 11:23 PM   #5
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IMO and experience Kratom extracts and tinctures are bad bad news! I have in the past taken both and with my addictive nature did nothing but increase my problem. If you are one of those that can take the plain kratom and if it works to wean off of it it could help. But my addictive nature would not allow that and ended up with a very expensive dependency on the tincture that made my hydrocodone/oxycodone dependency even worse. IMO I would use caution with these products.
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Unread 05-16-2008, 01:39 AM   #6
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Done, in 2006 I didnt have any suboxone so I kicked my DOC(S) cold turkey. My favorites were oxycontin, morphine (both tablet and IV. We tried weaning ourselves off with 5mg hydrocodone every 6 hours, but we'd take it all as soon as we got it. So we knew that wouldnt work. So we decided on CT. It was horrible. I had no idea that a human could feel that bad, that much misery, and still be alive. My poses were around 300mg of oxys and 300mg of ms contin per day. I was able to sustain such recklessness b/c my wife and I lived Right Onthe border of Mexico. So we could just walk across to Mexico go to any pharmacy and just order up whatever we wanted. So anyway, it was right around some of the worst of these w/d's and the Kratom we'd ordered arrived. We were f***ing jumping for joy b/c we were dying. It took us a long long time and a lot of correspondence with Kratom "pros" out there who have figured out just exactly how to optimize your Kratom experience. We ordered good Kratom and finally figured out it was best not to f*** with making the teas or those high-potency reduction tinctures. My wife and I wasted a lot of Kratom that way. But we both still wish that we'd have had somebody to really show us or at least like we could call them and ask them what to do at which periods of the growing cycle and harvesting and such. So we just made the capsules and swallowed them with water. The metabolization to hydromorphone/dialaudid that Kratom was supposed to pack was there, but I had to take a TON of it to feel good. So I went through A LOT of it while I was in the worst w/d's and it got expensive. Kratom occasionally relieved the pain and aches for short periods of time. Still, I gotta admit that it did help me to feel better when I really needed, just a bit. But enough to where it didnt seem so bad.
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Unread 05-16-2008, 05:04 AM   #7
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scotty--what the hell has this got to do with fibromyalgia?? are you promoting this drug?? where's EDWARD when you need him??!
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Unread 05-16-2008, 07:04 AM   #8
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I have a decent amount of experience with kratom......about 6 months worth. I think you all should know about kratom so I will speak of my adventures. I started taking kratom after tapering all the way down to 1mg of methadone over the course of a year and a half. Going from 1mg of methadone to 0 was much harder that I thought it was going to be and so after two weeks of PAWS, I started on kratom. Mind you that kratom is physically addictive, no matter what you hear. especially when you already have a dependency. If you dont take it you get sick(just like an opiate) I basically found a something legal to enslave me...kratom. I have heard it is much harder to taper on kratom when you are using it to come off of another physical addiction(in this case methadone) opposed to gaining a just a kratom dependency and trying come off of it. Anyhow after a month or so of nasty tasting kratom, I tried to cut down(while going to work) and it was not easy like some people described, so I kept using it as maintenance and my tolerance increased. It increases pretty fast with kratom and within a few more months I was in the extract fortified leaf as it was becoming a burden to shovel 3 or 4 even 5 tablespoons in my mouth every 6 hours...especially at work. This also makes it more my peak I was spending about $500 a month for EB. Ultimately I cut it out cold turkey for a week and failed. My tolerance literally went right back up after the week without kratom within another week, which seemed like the weirdest thing....or maybe not as I guess we all pick up where we left off, right? The rotten end of kratom came when my tolerance grew so large with the enhanced leaf(EB) and was getting sick(stomach) from taking as much as I needed to prevent withdrawal. Just a note....taking too much kratom causes you to become pretty ill...almost violently ill. This left me in a very bad place and ultimately needed to have something in my body to deal with w/d's so I could got work and found it in bad places like the street......which I then turned around and came to know suboxone.

I just want to say that I did not abuse kratom or use it to get f**ked up on. I was using it as maintenance. I tried to use the same amount every time I used it. It is very hard to use it long term for this purpose, so while all the people out on the forums rejoice on how awesome kratom is, it can be bad in some cases. If you use it, be diligent about getting setting up a plan for getting off of it or you may run into a similar issue that I did.

My 2 cents.
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Unread 05-16-2008, 09:29 AM   #9
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quote:Originally posted by kellibear

scotty--what the hell has this got to do with fibromyalgia?? are you promoting this drug?? where's EDWARD when you need him??!
EXACTLY! What does it have to do with recovery or sub either? People in recovery have no business messing with Kratom. True, it is relatively harmless but it is a drug mainly used recreationally, there are websites where you can discuss kratom and how to use it to your heart's content. It doesn't belong on the Addiction Survivors website, IMO.
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