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Unread 04-17-2008, 08:11 AM   #1
Steve Musicman
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Default OxyContin while taking Subutex

Guys,

I am in so much pain some times from a bad back that I want need relef. Is these enought OxyContin im MG's tht I could take that would override the subutex just for the day so I could get some relief. I've read that if you were in an accident and taken to the emergency room and the Doc's were told that you were on subs that they would simply compensate by given you a much bigger dose of pain killers to get you level. I went back to OxyContin and codeine a few months ago because the pain was so unbearable, but as always only after a few good days mentally and physically the codeine started screwing with my head, making me depressed and I hated it. So I’ back on subs but the pain is so bad with no relief that I was thinking that once and awhile I would take a big dose of OxyContin for refiel.

Any feedback would be great.
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Unread 04-17-2008, 09:50 AM   #2
NancyB
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Hi Steve, sorry to hear that you're in pain. In OHD's thread you said you're at 32mg. At 32mg, there is most likely complete blocking of the receptors and it wouldn't be prudent to try to titrate yourself up on full agonists.

How are you taking your bupe? Have you tried smaller doses - 2 to 4mg every 4 to 6 hours to see if you can get any pain relief?

Have you spoken with your doctor to see how you can get relief from the pain?

Nancy
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Unread 04-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #3
Smith
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I think what you are suggesting is a very bad idea. It kind of defeats the purpose of being on bupe.

talk to your doctor, maybe now is not the right time for you to be on bupe. Some pain people as Nancy said get pain relief from low doses of bupe, taken more often.


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Unread 04-17-2008, 03:44 PM   #4
kellibear
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if you are taking 32 mg of bupe, that's a huge dose and will totally block the oxy--you'll be wasting the oxy. if you really need the pain relief from the oxy, you'll have to stay off the bupe for a least 3 days, so the oxy can bind to your receptors--which are now totally blocked by the bupe. hope that helps!
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Unread 04-17-2008, 04:08 PM   #5
Mr. T
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Sorry to hear you are in pain music man. There are some pretty powerful non narcotic pain relievers out there now. You should ask a doctor about Toradol(ketorolac). It is similar to narcotic relief. My mom took them before and they worked well for her pain. Also, there is a drug called Ultram (tramadol) that works well for lower back pain. Hope this helps.
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Unread 04-17-2008, 04:42 PM   #6
OhioMike
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To begin with, I would not ever take another opiate with Suboxne, unless in a very controlled setting under constant medical care and observation.

Further, Nancy asks you a good question and what it boils down to is this, are you taking your Suboxone dose in the proper way to achieve best results for pain control?

some will get on here and claim that Suboxone simply does not work for pain or that it is a crappy medication for pain. That is NOT totally true. It varies greatly from person to person and beyond that, it also depends on what else you are doing or taking with Suboxone for pain.

IMO you need to get with a good pain specialist who is willing to work with your Sub doctor on finding lasting answers for you and options. Self medicating and experimenting is only going to take you down a path which you do not want to go and counting on family practice doctors could as well, as you need professionals who specialize in this form of medical care and who are on the cutting edge to find the best possible long term answers. Will those answers include Suboxone? Maybe not, but, if you do not take great care in finding out, your only hurting yourself.

I would like to add that IMO Ultram is dangerous for those of us who suffer from the disease of opiate addiction. Again, just my opinion.

Mike
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Unread 04-17-2008, 07:43 PM   #7
trish
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I was told that if you take narcotics such as h or oxycontins on top of sub you'd go into severe withdrawal besides possibly not feeling the affects of it... isn't that correct?
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Unread 04-18-2008, 01:04 AM   #8
Smith
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Hi Trish

No not really, bupe blocks the effects of other opioids. If you are not stabilized on bupe, and had recently taken a dose of full agonist opioids, then took a dose of bupe. You would then get precipitated withdrawals. If however you are stabilized on bupe, and take full agonist opioids it either blocks them completely or attenuates there effects. It all depends on how much bupe your on and how much full agonist you take, but you will never get withdrawals form taking full agonist opioids if your stabilized on bupe.

I kind of didn't want to say anything and just let you think you would get withdrawals, but decided it's better to know the truth.

Smith
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Unread 04-18-2008, 01:21 AM   #9
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Hey Musicman, sorry to hear you're in so much pain. I do what Nancy suggests (at the recommendation of my sub doc who primarily practices pain management) I take the Sub in 2mg doses more frequently. There are actually days when I don't take any, and days where I take up to 16mg depending on my back pain. I also use Tylenol, Advil (in very small amts due to GI problems) and I've recently started using a Flector Patch. It's a patch like an icy hot patch but it's antiinflammatory medication. You put it over the painful area and the medication is absorbed thru the skin, avoiding the GI problems that Advil/Motrin drugs cause. It's used a lot in sports injuries and I find it helps a great deal. I've had occasion to have to take oxycodone since I've been on Sub (given to me by my sub doctor) and I had to take 30mg to get pain relief and I didn't get any high which was great because I worried about relapse. I only needed it for 2 days and I took it about 8 hours after my last suboxone dose. He told me that if I had been on a full dose of 32mg of Sub a day I'd need a lot more and he'd want me in a hospital or in the office for monitoring due to the risk of respiratory depression. When we are actively using, we build up a tolerance so I used to take that amount and much more but once you stop and go on sub, your tolerance goes away so it is dangerous to just try to override the sub because the risk of respiratory depression and arrest is higher so please be very very careful.
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Unread 04-18-2008, 04:24 AM   #10
mikells43
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LOLOL steve i know people who have shot up to 2 bundles of ny heroin and not got by the bupe block and that was at 16mg of bupe. theres no way ur gettin by the blockaide my friend. i got a shot of dilaudid at the er once and i was on 12mg and it was a 4mg shot. and NOTHING for a kidney stone NO releif at all. no buzz even. BLOCKED! so yea.


the one danger with bupe is theres nothing that gets by it. they need to do more research, and to get ur receptors unblocked u need an ivbag full of narcan(naloxone).

if you had pain and needed releif from a car accident.. i am afraid all they could do for you at the er/trauma center is paralize you and intubuate you cause bupes some strong stuff. it fights for your receptors.

and ultram is dangerious like mike said. it could cause a w/d while you are on bupe as we heard on this board a day ago. thats scary stuff!!

when i quit using i was taking 50 ultrams a day and having multipule seizures due to it. its not for addicts!
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Unread 04-18-2008, 04:33 AM   #11
Mr. T
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Isn't ultram non narcotic; what is it exactly?
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Unread 04-18-2008, 07:34 AM   #12
Steve Musicman
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Hey guys,

Wow, I posted this question yesterday and so many of you responded. Thanks so much for all your advice and experience. These boards are the greatest. One thing I want you all to know is that I am a responsible mature adult and would never think of doing anything stupid so that's why I came to the boards to get answers. As Nancy suggested, I so take the suns 4 times a day but not 2-4 mgs, 8mg's and it helps with the pain, at least I think it does. The pills are just so expensive and I was wondering if I really need that many mg's. At this point I don't want to fix what is not broken, and I am a bit concerned because I am getting depressed lately something I've never dealt with my entire life as it's a totally new experience for me. I am always happy and smiling upbeat and fun to be with. But lately, I'm friggin falling apart here with the pain which is making me depressed, or maybe it's the subs that are doing it at such a high dose. And one more thing, does anyone know about like insurance companies, as I was terminated for a late payment and they said they will reinstate me after a background check. I don't run the doctor or the prescriptions through my insurance company so they nothing about it. Do pharmacies give out information?

Thanks again for all your help.
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Unread 04-18-2008, 08:29 AM   #13
flowers
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Hi Steve,

One of the gals here (maybe Stacey?) had kidney stones but she was taking 6 mgs/day and the normal shot of demerol broke through. So I know at that dose they can relieve your pain. I don't know if your back situation can be helped this way, but have you considered getting a shot of cortisone into your back? They did it for my hubby years ago and it worked great. He also has gotten the cortisone shot in his wrist for carpal tunnel with real good results.

Yes, I think pain can put someone into depression, and you have to watch that. Pain makes our brains put out endorphins, so after awhile you can get depleted of them. Maybe taking some endorphin-producing supplements/foods can help your body out.

When I had gout a month or two ago, I had to go from 16 mgs sub to hydro again. I should have wrote it all down, because I can't remember exactly, but I took 4x the hydro (20 mgs) every few hours and it didn't even start breaking through till the 6th 7th and 8th days. By that time the goutpain was easing up anyway, and then I induced myself back onto sub on the 10th or 11th day (when I ran out of hydro--ever the addict.) What I do remember was thinking, oh boy, I can get a 'legal' buzz on the hydros--wrong. I NEVER got even a crappy buzz, the bupe blockade is so strong against opioids. All I got was kind of sick feeling. After that experience one of the main reasons I want to get down to a lower level is in case I have a pain issue again, or emergency situation. I would HATE to have surgery unexpectedly and have nothing be able to cover the pain. I HAVE had suregery where the AH doctor refused to give me anything stronger than tylenol and it is a living hell!

I'm getting off topic here, unfortunately, you have the pain issue, I'm sure you have tried heat/cold therapy, what about massage/acupuncture, or the "TENS" --I don't know what TENS stands for, but my hubby has the TENS machine, you put electrodes on your pain spots and it gives the little electric tingle? It works great for his back. He has severe back pain, of course he's very obese (waiting for gastric bypass surgery), and he is also taking Norco tabs, but he can hook that machine up and get around all day long with it; without he can hardly stand ten minutes....

Another option-Valium? My girlfriend had back surgery and would rather have those than the painkillers...

I have to say OhMike's suggestion of going to a pain specialist is the best idea--I used to think all they did was write out narcotics Rx's--totally wrong. When I went I was AMAZED at the new and different things they could offer--they are really cutting edge!

About the pharmacies--I would think they would NOT give your info to an insurance company without your consent. But, when you signed up for the insurance, did you sign anything giving the insurance company consent to canvass your doctors/pharmacies? I've been disturbed lately to get mailings from pharmaceutical companies about Rx drugs I've been prescribed, obviously the pharmacies gave them my name AND address! For all the talk about privacy, it seems we have less and less of it everyday...

Good luck Steve, with your pain. I hope you find the answer soon and get some relief. Sandra A.
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Unread 04-18-2008, 11:19 AM   #14
NancyB
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Hi Steve, here's some bupe and pain information if you'd like to check it out:

"Buprenorphine is used as a pain reliever and to treat opiate addiction. It produces less of a "high" than other opioids, such as codeine and morphine." Suboxone/Subutex.
http://drugabusehelp.com/drugs/buprenorphine/ (Indications/paragraph 1.)

"...and its analgesic effect is due to agonism of ?-opioid receptors."
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...rphine#Effects, (Effects/paragraph 1.)

"Buprenorphine has been available...It is a safe and effective analgesic." Use of Buprenorphine in the Pharmacologic Management of Opioid Dependence A Curriculum for Physicians. January 2001, by Eric C. Strain, MD, Editor and Jeanne G. Trumble, MSW, Project Director. Development of the curriculum was supported by the: Center for Substance Abuse Treatment Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration US Department of Health and Human Services.
http://www.buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/...Curriculum.pdf (pages 3-29.)

"...buprenorphine can be used as an analgesic agent..." Buprenorphine: An Analgesic with an Expanding Role in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction. Susan E. Robinson. (CNS Drug Reviews. 2002. Vol. 8, No. 4, pp. 377-390.)
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...2002.tb00235.x

And lastly from the TIP40:
http://www.naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf
PDF page 33, hardcopy page 7:
Buprenorphine has several pharmaceutical uses. It is a potent analgesic, available in many countries as a 0.2-0.4 mg sublingual tablet (Temgesic).



Reiterating the TIP40, in Europe Temgesic is in .2 and .4mg sublingual tablets. That's what's prescribed for pain. You might want to think about trying 2 to 4mg, as many people find the lower doses provide more analgesia than the higher ones. It will help with the cost too. Also take into consideration that there have been some people who felt better physically and emotionally when they reduced their dose - the higher doses were making them lethargic, irritable and depressed. So it could be a win-win situation.

Let us know how you're doing.
Nancy
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Unread 04-18-2008, 02:48 PM   #15
staticx79
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To Mr. T: Ultram IS a narcotic. Any Dr who tells you differently has no idea what he is talking about. It is a full agonist at the mu-receptor just like all other narcotics. It has less affinity at the mu-receptor so it is not as strong as most, but you can take more and more to increase the effects (unlike sub, ultram has no ceiling effect). It has many bad side effects and is really unsafe and if taken with sub, sub can block its effect, just as sub will block the effects of other narcotics. It can also cause dependance and addiction just like all other opiates.
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Unread 04-18-2008, 02:52 PM   #16
Sub-Zero
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Mr.T. Look at this PET scan of available receptors and it shows that above 16mgs nearly all receptors are occupied (and blocked) by buprenorphine.
http://www.naabt.org/images/petscan.jpg
Sub
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Unread 04-18-2008, 03:05 PM   #17
Fish
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Hmmm, interesting thread. My only experience is that I did try to go back for a few days on norcos and the result was nil. Even after a week of no sub, I just could not get "there" at all,(of course I had no business trying to go there in the first place!) I think all that I felt was the tylenol. I'm thinking that if I ever need surgery, I'll have to stop completely for a week or two. The blockade is amazing. Makes me a little Leary of what bupe really is.
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Unread 04-18-2008, 03:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Fish

Makes me a little Leary of what bupe really is.
What do you mean? Why do you think it isn't what it has been defined as.
Sub-
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Unread 04-18-2008, 03:57 PM   #19
kellibear
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Mr. T

Isn't ultram non narcotic; what is it exactly?
hi mr. t, ultram was originally billed as a "safe, non-narcotic pain pill", safe for us addicts to take. we now know different, it is an opiate. it is very addictive, and i had 6 grandmal seizures on it. i was up to 40-50 a day, but the seizures can occur with normal doses, especially if taken with certain anti-depressants. it makes me sick everytime i read that an addict was prescribed ultram by a doctor who knows they are a recovering addict!
there are some doctors that just don't know and some that just don't care. but you would think the sub docs would know better!
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Unread 04-18-2008, 06:15 PM   #20
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Steve,

If you want pain relief, you need to get down to 4mgs or below of Suboxone. Then you could take an Oxycontin occasionally, and benefit from it.

It is way too dangerous to take so much Oxycontin to break through the blockade effect of Suboxone at 32mg, that you could OD.

I would get to 2mg a day of Suboxone. Then when you need pain relief, you will feel a normal dose of Oxycontin.

They are currently in the process of making a pill called OxyTrex. It is a combination of Oxycodone and Ultra Lose Dose Naltrexone. It appears to prevent tolerance and abuse, but still kills the pain (PubMed, punch in Oxycodone combination with Naltrexone).

Hope your pain gets under control,

Doug
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Unread 04-18-2008, 07:03 PM   #21
defeatedone
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im surprised no one mentioned this that i saw, but isnt it actually dangerous - i mean you could still overdose, from the combination, no?
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Unread 04-18-2008, 07:32 PM   #22
NancyB
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The risk of overdose is when someone keeps taking more full agonists thinking they don't work.
Not from the buprenorphine.

Nancy
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Unread 04-18-2008, 08:44 PM   #23
Mr. T
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Sub-Zero

Mr.T. Look at this PET scan of available receptors and it shows that above 16mgs nearly all receptors are occupied (and blocked) by buprenorphine.
http://www.naabt.org/images/petscan.jpg
Sub
What do you think the scan would look like if 8mg was taken?
Or 4mg?
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Unread 04-18-2008, 08:47 PM   #24
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I wish it showed but we can extrapolate and figure it to be in between. In the actual study that produced those scans there is a graph that makes it easier to see how much saturation there is at those in between doses.
Sub

Here is the graph:
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v2...l#figure-title

and the original study:
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v2.../1300251a.html

Sub
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Unread 04-19-2008, 08:28 AM   #25
Steve Musicman
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Again, thanks for all the input and yes, I've been to all the pain specialist and tried everything they had to offer, electro, acupuncture, you name it, I've tried it. I like the idea of backing down on the subs. The big question is that is it hard to back down from the subs, is it like OxyContin where it's just like impossible as you just want more an more. I don't really finding myself wanting more on 32mgs a day but how do I back down on subs just take one less 8mg a day each day until I get down to like 6-8mgs a day. Someone in this thread mentioned depression, and man do I ever have it. The last time I was on Subs, I was only taking 8mgs a day and I felt great all the time, no depression, I was like so happy, all the time, but this 32mgs seems to be kicking my ass and I think the depression is coming from too many subs. What do you guys think?

Thanks
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Unread 04-19-2008, 11:07 AM   #26
flowers
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Hi Steve,
With the long half life of sub, you can go right to zero subs for five days or so and not even feel it. Somewhere on this forum is a half-life graph showing how much bupe is on board after so many hours, maybe someone can print the link to it.
So as long as you're going to try to taper, would you be able to take ZERO for a few days and then go right to 8mgs/day? See how you feel when you get to the one week point on just 8mgs. If you don't have any symptoms (or even if you do), then the oxy should be able to break through that.
Definitely check with your doctor before trying anything new, but that's how I finally cut my dose in half for the past week--I went to ZERO sub last Fri Sat and Sunday, then I have been on 8 mgs since. I had been struggling for five months to get off 16 mgs/day and now I think it was just MENTAL. No w/d to speak of, some light sweating but in my case could be hormones...
I agree that you need to do something, you cannot go on as you are. That's not the quality of life you should be having in recovery, and yet you can't go back to full opiates. I hope you get some relief soon. Sandra A.
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Unread 04-19-2008, 11:17 AM   #27
NancyB
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Hi Steve, Here's another way to think about. Take a look at this PET Scan. As you can see the difference between 32 and 16 is hardly discernible. Since you'll be dosing for pain, Maybe you could try just going to 4mg every 4 hours and see how that works? If you start having WDs maybe add 1 or 2mg to see if that takes care of it. Once you're good there, then you can try smaller amounts and see how that goes.
http://www.naabt.org/images/petscan.jpg

Hopefully the smaller amounts will help both your pain and your depression.


Here are the half life graphs of which Sandra spoke:
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by TIM

This graph shows for how long and to what degree a single 16mgs dose of sub will have.

http://www.naabt.org/tl/bupe_half-life-graph.jpg

This one shows how the half-life contributes to the "building up" and stabilizing on bupe. Notice it takes about 7 days to stabilize.

http://www.naabt.org/tl/16mgs-11day-37halflife.jpg

Tim


Important note: The Half life number is an average and can vary greatly among individuals. These graphs are only to illustrate concept.
Let us know how you're doing.
Nancy
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Unread 04-19-2008, 11:32 AM   #28
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Hi Steve,
I'm sure you will get a lot more experienced answers than mine to your last question. But the short answer is NO... you will not want "more and more" bupe. It doesn't work that way. Part of the great thing about this medicine is that it works in small doses... and I am not going to attempt to give you the clinical reason why (LOL!!) They are others here who can. But I will say that I am in my second month of taking Suboxone and I am now taking about 4 - 6 mg a day, and I feel fine.

I really wanted to write to you because I also suffered with debilitating back pain shortly after I started Sub. The sub did not TOUCH my pain. My doctor prescribed muscle relaxers and I did get pretty effective relief from them. Of course, they make you really sleepy... but you probably know about Soma, too, I guess(??) Fortunately, my back problem appears to have been just a muscle spasm...not a slipped disc or some other permanent injury. I hope so, anyway. I was waiting to have an MRI, because of insurance problems, and in the meantime my pain subsided.

I also think about the blocking effect of bupe and worry a little about what happens if you have some kind of emergency and need strong opiod pain medicine. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get myself down to a small dose of bupe as quickly as possible. I was pretty worried about needing back surgery or something and not being able to be treated with strong pain medicine because of the bupe. And I think you should definitely talk to your doctor about tapering your dosage too. 32 mg is a lot.

I just know from everything I've learned that you'll be wasting your time if you take Oxy's with the Sub. And you might put yourself in danger if you try to take more Oxys to break through the bupe to get pain relief... or you'll just find yourself trying to get the buzz that we addicts will ALWAYS chase when we're taking our DOC.

I sincerely wish that you find relief and comfort on something safe along with the bupe. Please let me know how you're doing, and keep coming here. It helps.
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Unread 04-19-2008, 01:02 PM   #29
flowers
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Yeah, I agree with Jackline--you should NOT want more and more of sub. Sometimes it's tempting to take more because you hope it will give you a 'lift' but once you figure out that doesn't work, you should not have that compulsion to take more and more.


I also wanted to get my daily dose down to a reasonable level for the same reason--in case of emergency. It's bad enough to be in pain, but to have it be untreatable sounds just horrible.

Steve have you tried the cortisone injections to the back? They also inject morphine right to the pain site now, maybe that would be worth a try.
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Unread 04-22-2008, 07:47 AM   #30
Steve Musicman
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I went down 8 mgs and didn't feel any differently so for the past three days I've been at 24 which is cool because its not 32. After reading all of this I'm going down to 16mgs asap. I guess the depression is from the pain and I though the subs would help but they are not and since their so expensive I am just wasting money. It's interesting what you said Sandra that you stopped for a few days and got you daily dose way down. And Nancy your always a wealth of information! Jackie thanks for you input too as its very helpful. I am going to start cutting back especially since I now know the subs will not help the pain and nor the depression. Man, I have never been depressed before, it sucks, it's like this fog that comes over you and WOW what the heck do I do with this feeling. First things first, cut back my sub intake then will work on the other stuff.

Thanks everyone.
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Unread 04-22-2008, 11:16 AM   #31
NancyB
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Hi Steve, are you going to break up the 16 into smaller doses during the day to see if you get any pain relief?
Hopefully you'll start feeling better at lower doses.
Let us know how you're doing when you can.
Nancy
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Unread 04-22-2008, 11:54 AM   #32
freedomfrieda
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hi steve. for me sub caused me to have depression. so maby thats whats going on. I think that cuting back is a good idea. I mean if you feel no different on 32mg then 36mg, then why take such a high dose. I wish you luck is your taper.. and I didnt know that thay could now shot morphine into the back.. I used to go get them cortozone shotsd in my back. but with very little releaf. and like ya said the pain could be causing alot of your depression. again good luck. l.o.l.freedom.
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Unread 04-22-2008, 12:57 PM   #33
notkernels
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Ultram and Tramadol was my DOC. I can guarantee with 100% confidence its addicting!!!
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Unread 04-22-2008, 01:24 PM   #34
Stacey
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I second that statement. It was my first DOC, too.
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Unread 04-22-2008, 03:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by notkernels

Ultram and Tramadol was my DOC. I can guarantee with 100% confidence its addicting!!!
amen!!!
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Unread 04-23-2008, 12:37 AM   #36
Hackman
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Regarding can pharmacies release information to your insurance company - the answer is no - the only information your insurance company is entitled to is that which they pay for - so if they can get info on any prescription you tried to run thru insurance and any office visit they paid for but if you didn't run it thru your insurance, they aren't entitled to it. I work for a medical insurance company and this is drilled into our heads. However, having said that, I have to tell you that it is way to easy for me to get info. as soon as I say I'm calling from the insurance company they tell me anything I want to know and a lot I don't want to know. My recommendation to avoid problems is use a different pharmacy for insurance scritps than you do for the ones you use your insurance for and they won't know to ask for the records. I've never heard of an insurance company asking for a background check - i'm guessing they are looking for preexisting conditions they won't cover once they reinstate you.
Good luck!!
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Unread 04-23-2008, 09:30 AM   #37
oo2
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i'm in pain too, and i'm sorry to hear that. I have a problem with my left knee and i'm having surgery in 2 weeks and i'm scared. I walk with a cane bc of my knee and lortabs and percocette are useless.

however, if you NOT chronic pain patient (i'm not, my knees is only temporary) then you can just stop taking suboxone and take oxycontin. do not take some insane dose of oxycontin. ONLY TAKE WHAT YOU NEED. the oxycontin well prevent withdraws for 16 hours each pill because you will be taking them as directed i hope. and the oxycontin will give you some relief for the pain. you can take oxycontin for a few weeks untill your pain gets better. The suboxon will start to leave your system in a few days and the oxy will work better against the pain, but it will also start to get you high.

If you are in chronic pain then go see your dr about this. otherwise if you are in REAL pain, you can take oxycontin instead of suboxone for alittle while then get back on subs when you dont need the oxy. make sure that BOTH of your drs know what your doing before you get back on oxycontin though.
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Unread 04-25-2008, 07:21 AM   #38
Steve Musicman
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First I am going to respond to oo2. As always thank you for your advice and trying to help. The pain that I am in is a persistent, nagging, unforgiving, life changing experience that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I am 56 years young, prior to this all happening about 7-8 months ago I was an avid sportsman cycling 15 miles 6 days a week and working out in the gym 5 day week as this was my release in life, my one and only hobby, what I enjoyed most, well that and riding my Harley Davidson. This has changed my entire life and it sucks, I have done to old switch game back an forth 3 times now and each time it got harder to quit the codeine as there is not controlling codeine for this guy.

How quickly it stops working as a pain medicine and goes right to you head and makes you nuts. You're popping pills all day long that you carry around in your pocket, worrying that you're not going to run out and getting more is always a pain in the ass. Subs are easy to get, you don'’t need to dose all the time and you most importantly don't get high from them which is a feeling I have hated for long time.

And its not that easy to just stop the codeine, you have to plan a day to get sick, then take the pills, my wife has watched three times in horror, totally supportive, but hey, do I want the woman of my life to be feeling sorry for me. No, I want to be still young at heart, active and as she said I used to be a very funny person before the pain. Now with the depression, I'm starting to get ready to jump out my first floor window! I am also having trouble cutting back on the subs. I'm at 24mgs a day. I did drop from 32 but I can't get to 16mgs. Any suggestions! Nancy, no I haven't tried you suggestions yet because I haven't been able to get to a lower dosage to start that type of program.

Thanks guys for all your feedback
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Unread 04-25-2008, 08:04 AM   #39
CathSmith
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Steve, here's just a thought. I just started Sub on Monday (after a long, hard OxyContin pain regimen), but I'm also taking 60 mg. of Cymbalta, an antidepressant with proven pain relief. It's too early to say how this combination works for me, but the Cymbalta has been a huge benefit, as I've been on that for three years. Good luck and keep us posted...
Cath
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