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Unread 12-01-2007, 08:50 AM   #1
go75
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Default Finally made an appointment for next week

Been using mostly hydro (and randomly other opiates I could get hands on just about everything but H) for couple years now. (Oh I'm early 30s, nick is not my age). First just weekends, then most days, then every day. I've been plotting my trajectory of usage and it's been about doubling every year for last couple. At max (daily for last couple months up until last month) I was up to 160mg a day, but due to varied supply I could also deal with 6-8 a day and in trying to quit I've been trying to get down to that level for last few weeks.

I've tried to quit myself a couple serious times over the last year, I really know this is not going to end good for me if I don't and I'm getting progressively more desperate to maintain supply and that won't end good and when I quit on my own I made it various points from 3 days to I made it 3 weeks once.

Been reading this forum and others for while and I figured sub could actually help minimize some pain of detox (though having done it myself a couple times, I know I can tough through that part, the biggest issue I have is a week of horrible GI issues and I go through a LOT of immodium). But that I could get through myself, after that is done and I realize I STILL feel generally crappy, bored, and would have a much better day ON than off and that was end of quitting, that's the part I really hope sub can get me through.

I'm a genius, because I was sitting on verge of calling doc for few days (even called, hung up, called got voicemail, hung up, etc.) figured since I was really quitting this time I blew through a whole lot of pills really quickly and then proceeded to call the sub doc the morning after I downed the last of what I had last week. I figured great I'll get someone to see me 1-2 days and that'll work out great. I did internet search, found someone that looked good, called, left message, doc called back himself in couple hours and we setup an appointment. Reality was soonest appt was a week out, which I took, and then started to panic. Having dealt with this enough times before, I have a big supply of kratom which I have been taking in high quantity to stave off W/D over this weekend, and then I hooked up something for Monday which will get me back out of W/D, and then I realize I gotta stop again Wednesday to get back INTO W/D. I'm worried if I don't even use on Monday I'll be over W/D before my appt and he won't give me it at all and also why bother not using for 2 days if I'm going to get on sub anyhow to make it easier.

My biggest fear of going to sub doc is that for some reason he will end up NOT wanting to give me it. I know I'm not using a ton compared to some so I'm worried doc will say I'm not using enough and don't really need it and I should just quit without it, or he'll try to get me off of it really fast and I'll just go back on norcos, or because my past experience (and current) is my big W/D is mostly GI issues and generally feely crappy and I read that whole COWS scale and at worst I really end up with pretty mild WD and I've gotten good at toughing through it and not letting it show (I've sat at work in meetings feeling like someone in stabbing me in stomach for hours) he won't think I'm really in WD enough to give me it, or because I'll already have been off a couple days I will have made it past some of the worst W/D already and I'll seem better.
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Unread 12-01-2007, 10:09 AM   #2
bam55
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Hey go75
Sub will help you deal with the PAWS that are whats causing you to relapse over and over once you get past the acute withdrawls that you have suffered through everytime you try to quit.Dont worry that you may be past the worst of the acute withdrawls when you see your Doctor.Sub is designed to prevent withdrawls AND cravings and will not allow other opiates to work while you are taking Sub,or at least work the way you are accoustomed to.
It sounds like you are dealing with your addiction fairly,relativly,early(I know that is hard to believe)in its progression so if you really are serious about working a program involving Sub and other tools you may save yourself a lot of grief down the addiction road.You have made a wise choice in deciding to seek help and Sub can be a great tool in putting your addiction in permanent remission.Good luck.
Bill
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Unread 12-01-2007, 12:50 PM   #3
letgoletgod
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Hi Go75. It's normal for you to feel this fear and I think if you read the posts from others who just recently started their sub treatment you'll see that. Take a look at the information section of this site for induction protocol etc.

It sounds like you are concerned about 2 things: Will the Dr. let you start Sub and can you make it until then. Ask questions here and you will get a lot of support and good info from those who have experienced the same things you are going through. Don't give up and take this a day at a time until your appt. There is support for you here.

SB
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Unread 12-01-2007, 01:50 PM   #4
NancyB
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Hi go75 and welcome. If you're fearful that the doctor won't take you, then give the office a call Monday. There have been a number of people here in our community who started bupe without having had taken any opioids for from 3 days to over 3 months. Just make sure you tell him when you stopped, it could help in determining how must to start with.

Hopefully he's well versed in addiction treatment and knows that relapse is a life-threatening event.
Here's a list of suggested questions you might want to take a look at and see if any would be helpful to you at your appointment:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4004

Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns.
Nancy
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Unread 12-01-2007, 02:29 PM   #5
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Hi goearly30's! (giggle) More appropropriate nick, no? Hi and welcome!

From experience and what I have learned here, being scared is pretty much a precurser to beginning Suboxone/Subutex. We ALL have been there! Please take advantage of the wealth of educational materials the administration here has put together, along with advice from the 'old timers' and you can't go wrong!

I just wanted to say Hi, and let you know you are not alone in this anymore! Let us know how it goes, ok?

Elizabeth;}
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Unread 12-01-2007, 07:49 PM   #6
go75
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Thanks for that question URL I am going to either just print it out and hand it to the doc or at least study the ones I really want to know.

I'm going to try and just not worry about if I get it or not, I went and read the whole TIPS PDF cover to cover and I perfectly fit the DSM criteria, so if I was a psychiatrist that read that I would prescribe it to me. I realize if for some odd reason this dr just doesn't like me, then I'll just leave, cut out my WDs with my own drugs for the immediate fix, then get right to making an appointment somewhere else and moving on. It would just delay things a bit but to be realistic, another couple days using is not going to kill me (knock on wood) and the dr is here to help people exactly like me so what are really the odds I ask for his help and he says no. I think just figuring out in my head that what this one guy says on this one day is not going to define my future makes me feel a bit more at ease.

Plus I know I'll be ok until then, because I am essentially still using right now. Its almost like for at least a few days I do not feel bad at ALL that I am using (which is a change cuz for months I've felt really bad that I am still doing this to myself), because its almost like that dr told me nope I actually am not available for you to quit using yet so my doctors orders are keep using for the moment.

A decade ago I was smoking weed daily and just decided ok enough of that I'm done and went down to doing it once a year, and I was taking lots of other things back then and decided no more of those either and when I decided I was done with them, that was it, no big deal. So I was honestly a little bit shocked that when I actually DECIDED to quit and did it first time like a year ago, that it just didn't happen and stick and that was it. I was like, woh, what just happened here. And it was definitely the craving, the fact that I was non-stop thinking about it constantly and to think that I thought I was spending a lot of time using and obtaining and then I quit and I was spending just as much time thinking about not using. And that was pretty depressing to fail, at least for the first 30 minutes until I was high again.

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Unread 12-01-2007, 08:43 PM   #7
Stacey
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Go75

I'm a thirty-something (FWIW) former sub user, looking for long talks and walks on the beach at sunset. Non-smoker..... wait....wrong website.

I am a former sub user and only because I completed my treatment almost a year ago and stick around here to let people know it really is as good as you hope it will be and maybe even more. All the fears and anxiety you have are normal and everyone here has been through it.

I'm sure the doctor will give you sub. Really, there is no reason why if he is educated at all on this disease. It's not always the withdrawal that people are trying to aviod...it's the long term that's the problem. Many have toughed it out for the days required, just as you have, to find themselves more miserable than when they were on the drugs. Not much incentive to stay off.

Sub gives you the gift of time and taper. Take the time to fix your issues and then slowly taper off so your brain does not catch on physically and the rest will be history. OR you may find you are one that needs longterm use. You never know. Relapse has a 40% mortality rate, and those are not Vegas odd's!! THAT'S what sub is for. Stop the drug rollercoaster or merry-go-round and put your life back together.

You will be glad you made this decison.

Stacey
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Unread 12-05-2007, 10:28 AM   #8
go75
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Tomorrow afternoon my appt. So this late afternoon will use, I should be fine until bed and hopefully sleep ok, then a bit miserable tomorrow though I'm expecting/hoping it won't be that bad. My big concern now is I have to work on Friday and I read all the side effects folks have and that could be tough and there is no way to get out of work that 1 day for at least first half the day. Even to extent that if I just get a script and not anything in the dr office I might just try to time it out to go another day and take it right after work friday, but if he has it there, I'm not going to refuse. Then weekend is ok.
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Unread 12-05-2007, 10:50 AM   #9
cjsabbath
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You're persistence will pay huge dividends in the end. The fact that you're here and recognize the chronic nature of addiction is a huge step in the right direction.

Keep us posted on your progress.

CJ
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Unread 12-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #10
NancyB
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Hi go75, don't let Friday be of a concern to you right now. The biggest thing is to get started. There are many, many people who had no problem working the next day, and some even the same day. So think positively.

Have you read our precipitated withdrawal sheet yet? It might be worth reading - it explains the need to be in mild-to-moderate withdrawals before starting.
http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf

Keep us posted on how you're doing!
Nancy
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Unread 12-05-2007, 03:02 PM   #11
russell
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Go75-
you will be fine & shouldn't miss any work. I actually did my induction at work! I was sick & in w/d. I had waited to get paid to pick up my script. So after I got paid & went to the pharmacy, I had to go back to work. I figured I already felt like complete crap, It couldn't get any worse. I put 2mg under my tounge & 45 min later I was amazed how much better I felt. I took 2mg more & within an hour I was a changed man!

Scott-
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Unread 12-05-2007, 03:28 PM   #12
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Hey go75, I could have worked after my induction, but I work for myself and told myself to take the rest of the afternoon off. Unlike dedicated Scott. LOL Soooooo, I went for a long walk instead. I felt fine. Positive energy beams and good luck tomorrow! -Mary
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Unread 12-07-2007, 03:33 AM   #13
go75
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Folks,

First off thanks for all the supportive notes over the last week - it really took an anxious time I was having and kept the edge off that.

So I went to doc today, I was getting to be in pretty poor shape at the 24 hour after last dose mark (I had gotten myself into another poor crunch with extent I used right up until the last moment, what a shocker). Not as bad as HBD was couple days ago, but for me it wasn't good (it was bearable, though). I spent a long while talking to him, mostly him asking questions and me responding, going through my history and some plans. I really liked the doc, I explained how I had read a ton about sub online and he didn't try to force feed me what I already knew, he gave me suggestions and talked to me about seeing a therapist and/or to really consider AA/NA but isn't going to force me to do anything, and he was really open about not setting any kind of timeframes or limits on how the sub usage would progress - he told me people are different and we'll figure out together what works for me.

I was pretty anxious I think through the whole session, and because I wasn't really feeling very well physically I didn't actually ask a whole lot of questions or remember what I wanted to ask or bring a list of questions as I should have (note to others: write down and bring a list).

I left with a script (he didn't give me anything in the office) and he told me which store where right by his office would definitely have them to fill, I went there got it filled and went right home and took first dose.

Doc started me with script for 8mg 3x a day and a follow-up in 2 weeks, but said the start is really about finding what is going to work, so I can cut them in half and take less and I could also try 2x a day or cutting down to 2x a day, and told me to call him and we'll work through dosages over phone in coming days if we need to or I can email him with questions too. His plain direction is more dose and more aggressive than the procedure the TIP says, so I'm not sure if I want to go more conservatively and follow the TIP plan or take it all. I definitely got sense that doc was trusting of me to figure out how I wanted to do it and not dictating I had to be taking 8mg x 3 tomororw. Since he was just off the bat going with the max initial dose (right?), it made me really comfortable knowing that I would have enough to last until next visit under any circumstance and that I could choose to go slower but he wasn't forcing me to.

I really liked that I got the sense that this was going to be a joint effort, that sub treatment was part of his overall speciality in addiction and not an ATM machine for him ($200 first session, something <$100 future ones) I told him I knew a lot about sub already from online and he didn't try to give me a lecture on everything I already knew, he just wanted to know what questions I had to expand that knowledge.

So basically my wd symptoms went away within an hour after I took the 8mg; and I'm back to feeling decent. No side effects yet, it didn't turn out to be way too much or not enough, its late and I need to get to sleep and then work tomorrow.

I'm trying to figure out how the half-life and dosage will work as you take more. Will the 2nd one I take build upon the first and increase my net dose or will I just be maintaining same dose at 3x a day, or would that feel like 3x as much as I'm taking having gone through 1 pill. I feel like if I could maintain the point I'm at having taken 1 8mg that is a good level for moment, but then maybe just that first time you get the new opiate its going to be a lot more powerful than normal? So I didn't ask that all at time, so I'm back to studying the TIP document to make sure I time everything right, and if I'm not positive on exactly right thing to do I will call doc up and get some validation from him before proceeding.

So far so good...
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Unread 12-07-2007, 04:29 AM   #14
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Just wanted to wish you the best, and I am so proud of you for taking that first big step, as we all know it is very scary at first, but just wait the best is yet to come.

Helen
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Unread 12-07-2007, 05:17 AM   #15
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go75,
It takes about 2weeks to adjust and around 3 days to notice a decrease in dosage. Others who are far more knowledgable will be along in the morning to give you some good advice. I just wanted to tell congratulations on your successful induction. It sounds like you have a good dr who is willing to work with you. Some of this can be confusing at first but you will get the hang of it. Most people have many questions the first week about dosage, side effects etc. between your dr and the kind people here you will get the hang of it. You have a great attitude and I know you will do well.
Happy recovery!
Susan
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Unread 12-07-2007, 05:56 AM   #16
go75
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Can't sleep. Hmf. I took first sub at 9pm when I got home from dr and pharmacy, so I'm guessing that is why, though it could also be a massive influx of caffeine from last couple days and unrelated to the sub? Should I try to not take sub at night, or is this unusual or indicative of anything, or perfectly normal?



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Unread 12-07-2007, 10:44 AM   #17
bam55
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Go75
Congrats on starting your recovery.
You are correct ,the 9pm dosing is probably what is keeping you awake.
In my opinion based on your hydro usage you probably do not need 24mg of Sub to prevent withdrawls or cravings.If 8mg worked taking more wont work better and could cause some problems for you.Giving someone dosage advise is risky BUT if it was me I would see if 8mg was working and only take more in a 24 hour cycle if withdrawls or cravings occured and even then I would try no more than another 4mg at that point.It is different for everyone and it is tricky finding the correct dose initially but remember the correct dose is the least amount that prevents withdrawls and cravings,the least amount.
Bill
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Unread 12-07-2007, 01:45 PM   #18
lookingup
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bam55

Go75
Congrats on starting your recovery.
You are correct ,the 9pm dosing is probably what is keeping you awake.
In my opinion based on your hydro usage you probably do not need 24mg of Sub to prevent withdrawls or cravings.If 8mg worked taking more wont work better and could cause some problems for you.Giving someone dosage advise is risky BUT if it was me I would see if 8mg was working and only take more in a 24 hour cycle if withdrawls or cravings occured and even then I would try no more than another 4mg at that point.It is different for everyone and it is tricky finding the correct dose initially but remember the correct dose is the least amount that prevents withdrawls and cravings,the least amount.
Bill
Perfect advice!
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Unread 12-07-2007, 07:26 PM   #19
go75
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Ok, is there a difference between doing 4mg twice a day vs. 8mg once a day? It seems like the sub lasts so long that it wouldn't really matter?
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Unread 12-07-2007, 07:32 PM   #20
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go75, I started treatment a while ago and I only take 8mg. a day split in AM & PM, although I am prescribed 16 a day but my intake of Lortabs was fairly small. I just could not stop on my own. I'm only a few years older than you, so I wish you well in your recovery. dtz
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Unread 12-08-2007, 12:23 AM   #21
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Ok so I thought I'd update. Today was tough. Ultimately, I should not have been working and should have taken day off. I should have timed this 1 day later where at least I had the weekend to adjust first. The critical lack of sleep from previous 2 nights turned into finally hitting the wall and being so tired this morning and I was having a hard time focusing and that meant I should NOT have been driving, but I had to. Drank some coffee and then I was really vigilant and everything turned out ok, but I got stuck in a long meeting and I think I didn't do anything to embarass myself so I survived. I got one 'wow have you slept lately' comment from a coworker.

I'm still figuring out the dose schedule, I am going to cut back from 8mg to take a 4mg dose tomorrow morning and then just see how things go during day, heck maybe 4mg is all I will need. I'm going to remember that unlike when I was abusing, more does not mean better. I also really want to not get too much or badly timed sub that it interferes with my sleep or focus. I'm assuming I'll be thinking straight and totally fine to drive and all by end of weekend and that was probably even more just complete lack of sleep for 2 days than the sub itself.
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Unread 12-08-2007, 01:04 PM   #22
go75
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I got an awesome night of sleep and I took 4mg this morning when I woke up, and I'm hoping that is going to work out for me as a better dose. After I took 16mg in 12 hours (thursday night and friday morning) it definitely got me through without any W/D symptoms but was basically getting me high and causing me some loss of focus side-effects which I really wasn't looking for especially yesterday.

So we'll see if 8mg a day total is better fit for me today.
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Unread 12-08-2007, 02:11 PM   #23
bam55
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go75
It sounds like your on the right track now.24mg just sounded like way to much based on your history,even 16mg may be more than you need and all you need is all you need,more can create problems.
Bill
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Unread 12-09-2007, 09:20 AM   #24
go75
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Ok so yesterday I took 8mg total (4mg morning, 4mg afternoon). I felt really good all day except for in the evening I had a really bad head-ache (and not to minimize it because I don't think I could live with a constant headache, but other than that symptom my body and mind felt great).

I'm not sure if that means I should try to cut dose again down to 2mg twice a day now, or if it hasn't been long enough that I'm still feeling the effects from the 16mg I took the previous day, or if the headache could be a W/D effect from not taking enough?

Also, if I do have a headache, is there any suggestions out there for treating it? Can I take a tylenol or excedrin or similar or would that be unlikey to do anything?
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Unread 12-09-2007, 11:34 AM   #25
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Hi go75, the halflife of bupe averages about 37.5 hours, keeping that in mind, it sometimes take a couple days or so to feel any decrease.

Think about keeping a journal of when/how much you take and how you feel afterwards.

Make sure you drink plenty of water too. Staying hydrated is important, as sometimes opioids can suppress the thirst mechanism.

Excedrin, tylenol, aspirin, are all ok to take and could help.

Hope you stabilize soon.
Nancy
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Unread 12-09-2007, 11:43 AM   #26
bam55
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Go75
Go ahead and try a excedrin,you might be surprized how well those kind of meds actually work.Many of us distained those"weak" drugs when we were using because we thought we knew better and just popped another of our stronger pills to deal with headaches,etc.
If headaches were not a usual sympton of withdrawls for you chances are your headache is just caused by adjusting and stabalizing on the Sub you are now taking or it could be your dose is still a little higher than you need.I would suggest trying to drop a little bit more but try 6mg before droping to 4mg.Your right though you are still on an effective dose of more than 8mg because of the 16mg you took the day before.The math can be a little confusing but remember the half life dynamic is 37 hours.
Bill
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Unread 12-09-2007, 11:47 AM   #27
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Go
Oh right, I forgot the water! How could I ,Nancy, I am sorry,I guess you dont mention that often enough.Really Go, the water deal often cures the headache deal.
Bill
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Unread 12-09-2007, 11:55 PM   #28
go75
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This thread was really helpful: http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5030

People told me the half-life was really long, but even up to this weekend I didn't really 'get' how the amount of sub in my system was going up or down with my dosage. That when in fact initially when I first thought I was 'cutting' my dose in reality I was still putting MORE sub in my system this weekend, and the comments of you have to wait a couple days to feel the effects of a dose change now make sense, as does everyones explanations of what was happening to me that I didn't quite get.

I made myself a spreadsheet of my current doses with the half-life effects calculated in and charted it, and can now see how I ended up spiking my dose to a max by saturday morning, and have slowly been letting it fall back down a bit. Now that I have a good sense of what my actual blood levels are of the sub, I feel like I can try to pinpoint the point in time as it comes that I have the right dose and work on a dose schedule to maintain that.

Today I did cut from 4mg x 2 to 2mg x 2, and I'm planning on staying at 2mg x 2 (4mg total) tomorrow as well and see how I feel; I think with the 8mg doses finally totally out of my system there is some chance I find out 4mg/day is too low and I go back up to 6 or 8, but it seems like it is easy to under-shoot and then take another dose when I need it to get levels back up quickly, but more time consuming to recover from overdoing it which could give me a 'bad day'. I need to be in good form for work this week so I want to be very conservative on things during the week.

It would have been nice if I have figured this all out 4 days ago BEFORE I started taking sub, but I feel like I really 'get' it now.

Today, I ended up with another headache, but not as bad as yesterday, and I did take some ibuprofen and it seemed to help (I think my body has had enough APAP for a long time so I wanted to avoid that). Also I had some trouble urinating, which I see is another common side-effect and also something I commonly had when I was taking hydros; at first I was worried about it, then when I had to go bad enough I finally could so as long as it eventually comes out its not really a problem. Wonder what side-effect is next!

If I imagined what this weekend would be like if I had been going C/T, or just on my old DOCs, this has been the most peaceful and chill and genuinely happy couple days I have had in a while, all things considered.
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Unread 12-11-2007, 12:32 PM   #29
go75
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So yesterday my stomach hurt really bad. I wasn't sure if it is was from:

A. Withdrawals because I wasn't taking enough sub
B. Sub because I was taking too much of it
C. Constipation because I haven't had a BM since Thursday

I figure it was A & C, or B & C. What a dilemma though, because I didn't know the proper solution.

I had taken Miralax the previous 2 days, but with no effect. So yesterday I took 3 colace (3 being the recommended dose on bottle) to try and get something moving. Still nothing. I think today I have to move up to something more powerful to get things moving today.

After a couple hours of pain, I took another 2mg sub because I figured that would definitely calm the pain of my stomach regardless of what else was going on. It worked. So maybe that just means I was not taking enough, or maybe it just means that sub will mask the constipation pain if I take enough of it?

But I still don't know which of the 3 it is, I am going to have to try something stronger for the BM today - I read the thread on this and I am willing to try any route tonight to get movement going.

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Unread 12-11-2007, 01:03 PM   #30
bam55
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Go75
Sounds like "C" caused by "B" to me.Drink LOTS and LOTS of water along with whatever other fiber,meds ,etc that help get things moving. Your initial dose of Sub was more than your system was accustomed too and it will take a couple of days to balance things out.
There are numerous threads in the archives here with tips on dealing with this,check them out.
Bill
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Unread 12-11-2007, 01:10 PM   #31
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Hi there go75! Good job so far!! Migraines where the main reason I was put on opiates, and then I developed Fibromyalgia. Living with a headache, all or most of the time is no way to live, I agree with you there...yuk!! I admire your commitment! The only suggestion I would make is do what you are doing, without obsessing about your dose. The adjustment, for some, can be problematic and I too wish we had explained the half life to you before, but it is in the literature here. The abdominal cramping is probably a little bit of withdrawal, so you did the right thing by taking a little more Suboxone. Constipation can be helped with the Miralax, which I too take or Colace, or other things, but they all take time. The water I have found is important and exercise also. Exercising not only helps to get everything moving, but also helps raise your endorphins. For me, it is just so important for so many reasons!!

I just wanted to say, way to go!! and to wish you continued success!! Ain't life grand??!!

Elizabeth;}
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Unread 12-11-2007, 01:15 PM   #32
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Get a fiber supplement like Metimucil, I use Rite Aide house brand fiber pills. Take the max dosage on the bottle EVERYDAY until things get moving. Then adjust to keep things moving, but do not stop completely. As your sub dosage changes, so will your need for fiber. Laxative should only be necessary in extreme instances, like now.
Wait a full five days in between sub dosage drops for things to level out. Best of luck.
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Unread 12-12-2007, 09:53 PM   #33
go75
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So...

Ok first off chat was really nice, its too bad there isn't like a 24x7 chat room somewhere that is just always open even if it is would be mostly empty.

So in my life, I still haven't had a BM. It was colace monday, used full dose of milk of magnesia yesterday and nothing, just took an hour ago a full-dose of ex-lax so I'm hoping that creates motion. Interestingly my stomach doesn't hurt at all and hasn't since Monday, and so I've been pretty good from a lack of side-effect perspective since then, but I know its not good to be so backed up. I have started on raisin bran every morning and have fiber supplements ready to go as well and have been drinking lots of water now.

I still am having trouble going #1, but since I know that I can pee when I REALLY have to go, my mind has adjusted so that I don't run to bathroom at first hint of needing to (and I was trying that and failing and that was making me nervous), and so for last two days I end up being able to go whenever I try, I'm just not trying as frequently as I used to. If that makes sense.

This morning I woke up and for first time felt a little worn out and felt like wow I could use a couple norco's to get me awake and going throughout the day - really the first even thought in my head I had since the moment I took first sub. So looking at my chart, I can tell that my sub in bloodstream has been slowly dwindling since I lowered my dose down to 4mg on Sunday and that I have finally hit the level of being below what I should be as my steady level. Since I've been cutting doses out of 8mg pills into 2mg things are not exact anyhow, I tried to take a 'bigger' 2mg both this morning and afternoon, but I figured since I didn't really have a 'craving' per se for DOC, but just had that thought, I could just see how day went and reconsider tonight what to do tomorrow in terms of a real change. I think in morning if I feel same way again, I'm going to go up to 6mg/day (4 in morning, 2 afternoon), which is what bam suggested I do to begin with but I'm not good at listening to others it seems.
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Unread 12-12-2007, 11:32 PM   #34
NancyB
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Hi go75, glad you like chat. We'll be back tomorrow 7:30 to 9:30 eastern time.

That's good that the fleeting thought of norco was just that, a fleeting thought.
It's fairly common for people to have those at the beginning, especially when stabilizing.
As long as they stay fleeting and you don't dwell or act upon them, you're doing great.

I hope things get better in the BM department soon.
Nancy
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Unread 12-13-2007, 07:52 PM   #35
go75
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Good news, I feel great. One week and my life has changed dramatically, in a really positive way. Wow.

I didn't have any response to the Senna-based stuff yesterday. (Edited my post as had a rapid update). I went with glycerin supp's today as there were some in my house already from spouse who has had some bad C in the past. Worked really fast, made me feel much better, and psychologically got my mind off of worrying about things; it wasn't so bad if I have to do that again so I know what the last resort is and that it works, and I know I can avoid having to get to that if I keep up my water, fiber, bran, and take some softeners earlier on in process. Just one more side effect, not necessarily solved, but checked off my mental list of really being a problem for me.

Awesome.
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Unread 12-13-2007, 07:59 PM   #36
TIM
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Congratulations! For the constipation, there are quite a few threads on this topic with some great suggestions and individual results and experiences. I recommend you do a search http://naabt.org/forum/search.asp for constipation search in: subject only and you'll find tons of info. Generally stool softeners combined with high fiber diet plenty of water and occasional laxative have helped others. Best of luck!!
Tim
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Unread 12-14-2007, 09:36 PM   #37
go75
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So my high-fiber, high-water diet proved a quick success for natural movement in 1 day. I am pretty much out of things to post for now, which is a GOOD thing, I might venture myself over to the off-topic forum because I feel like I've run the course on being new here and asking questions for the moment.

My next step is to make an appointment with a therapist. That's my goal for next week.


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Unread 12-14-2007, 09:45 PM   #38
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Raisun bran provides a TON of fiber, also the metamucil powder mixed with an energy drink or vitamin water works awesome. Just take about 25mgs at one time and you are all set. It sounds like the const. is from too high of a dose most likely, and if you can find a lower dose that keeps you feeling normal, I would advise that. I dont understand how docs prescribe 24 and 16mg its crazy, that is sooo soo much.
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Unread 12-31-2007, 08:34 PM   #39
go75
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Ok so it took me longer than I wanted but with a little encouragement from chat yesterday I did in fact call and make a therapist appointment - it isn't for another 2 weeks but it before my next dr appt so I will have succeeded in seeing a therapist before I see dr next which will make dr happy .

So I wanted to share that news, I feel like I have done everything I should be doing now and can just relax and enjoy things between now and those next 2 appointments.

For those readers of my thread, all my side effects have gone away, the only thing I'd say is I have to keep on-top of my fiber intake daily and I do feel a little tired but more like just what a normal tired person would feel like from not sleeping enough which I probably haven't been(like I have NO problem whatsoever dropping right to sleep the instant I'm ready at night, and I have taken some afternoon naps that felt great).

Sub has really changed my life very quickly and I wish I had started on it a long time ago. Eventually I will want to taper but that is so far in the future of my recovery right now I am really just enjoying where I am. I know it has been a somewhat rocky start and use for some others on this forum, but count me at this moment on the 100% success side (and keeping my fingers crossed I stay that way).

Happy new year everyone and thanks, I would give y'all a giant hug if I could.

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Unread 03-06-2008, 07:54 PM   #40
go75
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Figure I'd post the end of the story for me, at least as far as sub is concerned. Got on sub in early December, bounced around on doses between 6mg-8mg in December, then was on 12mg through all of January, and made the decision in my life to get totally drug-free as quickly as possible at end of January. I was shocked by this, as I had figured I was due for a long stay, at least a year if not years, on sub. Dropped immediately to 8mg, stayed there a week, dropped to 4mg, stayed there a week, spent 4 days on 3mg, 4 or so days on 2mg, 1 day on 1mg, and stopped. At every point in time my dr told me to taper slower but supported me if that's what I wanted to do, and I just wanted to get off.

First 2 days after I quit were fine, then I spent about 5 days suffering from what would be considered pretty moderately bad opiate withdrawals, and then suffering from complete insomnia and restless legs I got legitimately sick and spent week 2 in general misery as well. Two full weeks after quitting sub, I felt good again physically, and other than some lingering trouble sleeping which I take melatonin to help, that is the end of using drugs of any kind.

The sequence of events that me getting on sub started resulted in a really positive outcome for me as of this moment, so from that perspective I am really happy with the whole process. I didn't really get any positive benefit from sub in terms of minimizing withdrawal, I went through withdrawal that I am sure was every bit as bad or worse as it would have been had I quit my hydro habit in a similar way, and if I had done a long slow taper I probably could have minimized some of that acute pain, but then today I would still be on sub and mentally I feel really good that I am not.

Sub was neither a miracle cure or a horrible drug - it is a different drug that has its own effects which like everything else can be positive or negative. If someone could have shook me hard 3 months ago and told me I could have freedom from active addiction and never had to use drugs again, told me to go to NA and get in recovery, and gotten me to listen, I could have gotten to the same place today without a brief interlude on sub, but until I was ON sub, I wasn't ready to hear that message, and that's what it gave me.

Thanks everyone for the help along the way.
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Unread 03-06-2008, 08:14 PM   #41
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Beautiful post. Thank you so much for ending your sub. story with us.
This final thought of your post really sums up my reason for getting on suboxone.

If someone could have shook me hard 3 months ago and told me I could have freedom from active addiction and never had to use drugs again, told me to go to NA and get in recovery, and gotten me to listen, I could have gotten to the same place today without a brief interlude on sub, but until I was ON sub, I wasn't ready to hear that message, and that's what it gave me.


That really hits the nail on the head.

Thank you and best wishes in your continued you recovery!

Heidi
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Unread 03-06-2008, 09:44 PM   #42
Mike
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go75,
Congratulations!! I tried that too and failed, for me I needed sub for 3 years to get myself to a place where I could taper off. I know I couldn't have done it without sub, because for the 20 years before I had been trying.
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Unread 03-07-2008, 02:54 AM   #43
Jennyg
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welcome and i agree with the rest of the members..what you are going through is normal and the doc will more than likely prescribe bupe for you......just be aware if you are ever seriously hurt or injured and need to be treated for pain you wont be and will most likely have to suffer needlessly ...bupe is great and does help however because of this bupe treatment i have been discriminated against.....once you filll your bupe and go to the doc there will be letters sent out to everyone of your doctors and its on your record for life (i think)........so make sure u ask lots of questions and i wish u the best of luck bupe is a wonderful tool.....and it helps a lot.....best luck and please dont think i am giving negative advice im jsut being honest here so ask lots and lots of questions about your privacy and the laws and and who will have your info.....I was lied tooo so get everything in writing...
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Unread 03-07-2008, 10:31 AM   #44
NancyB
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Hi go75! Congratulations on being both addiction and drug-free!

I've been thinking of you, wondering how you were doing.
Thanks for letting us know!

My best wishes for a lifetime of happiness.

Nancy
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