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Unread 11-18-2007, 04:52 AM   #1
wwwrothy
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Default on sub for 5 months, scared to stop bc of withdraw

Hello everyone. I am trying to keep this short and sweet. I've been cruising through so many post and heard so many i had to ask directly.

i'm 25 and have been on suboxone for 5 months. its saved my life. hands down. now it is expensive and i am looking to stop in the next 3 months or so. but like most i am very scared of withdrawl. i dont do well with opiate withdrawl AT ALL. i basically become handicapped. i cant do anything productive. now though i'm finishing college, have a good job, and plenty of hope.

i am on 12mg's per day right now. i have gone 3 days before without any and have felt fine. i also feel fine when i lessen my dose. im sure this is bc of the long half life. but i stay usually at 12mg bc i KNOW it works and i feel it work. has ANYONE tappered successfully and have gotten off the suboxone? starting tomorrow im going to cut my dose and do so each week. but once its down to ZEROmg's/day, how is the withdrawl? i know its different for everyone but please let me know how it was.

Again though, thank God for this medication. I cant wait to hear back. Thanks guys!

rusty
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Unread 11-18-2007, 05:09 AM   #2
Mike
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Welcome to the board! I tapered off over 2 1/2 years ago. Whether or not you have withdrawal will depend on whether or not you brain has healed sufficiently. You must pace your taper with your brains ability to heal, no matter how long that takes, it can't be rushed. You could start to taper 2mgs/ every two weeks until you reach 6mgs then only 2mgs/month, and once at 2mgs take two months to go to zero. You won't notice anything until you are below 2mgs. This is a good post to read: http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4887
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Unread 11-18-2007, 12:24 PM   #3
wwwrothy
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thanks mike for the advice. and yes i had read the well written post before hand. i had never put too much thought into any type of "brain healing"

i did want to bring something to yours and everyone's else attention on this board. i just find it a little strange that my most about getting OFF suboxone got only ONE reply will BJOKER's post on his first very unspecific use of swallowing his first pill (did think you could swallow them, everytime i swallowed a little my accident i got quite sick) got THIRTY THREE replies...interesting....wouldnt you say?
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Unread 11-18-2007, 12:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wwwrothy

thanks mike for the advice. and yes i had read the well written post before hand. i had never put too much thought into any type of "brain healing"

i did want to bring something to yours and everyone's else attention on this board. i just find it a little strange that my most about getting OFF suboxone got only ONE reply will BJOKER's post on his first very unspecific use of swallowing his first pill (did think you could swallow them, everytime i swallowed a little my accident i got quite sick) got THIRTY THREE replies...interesting....wouldnt you say?






Give it some time u started this topic in the middle of the night and it's only 9:45am now on a Sunday morning. Once people get up and read here they will help you.

I can't offer you any advice about tapering so good luck.
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Unread 11-18-2007, 12:51 PM   #5
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The responses to a question can vary for many reasons. Bjoker has been here a while trying to find a sub doctor; so once a physician was finally found there was a rallying around of support. It looks like it was late at night (or very early in the morning) when you posted. I think that many of the people on sub are stable on their medication, working and busy leading their lives so they aren't here maybe as frequently. Also it is the weekend. The lack of response has nothing to do with your particular situation; but more to do with the timing I would imagine. I notice that thirty one people have read your thread. That could mean that thirty one people were reading that wanted to know the answer too or it could mean that several people read it over and over. So I guess what I am trying to say is to try not to read too much into the amount of responses.

I am certain that there will be people along soon that will offer you support and suggestions.

~josie
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Unread 11-18-2007, 01:41 PM   #6
katie0803
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hey rusty! well i havent gotten completly off sub but i have tapered from 16mgs to 2. i actually went back up to 4mgs for a few months but i am thinking about tapering again in jan. the only think i can tell you is to not put a time limit on it. it is possible to get off in 3 months but dont feel bad if it takes longer. you said cost was part of the reason but even if you get to 2mgs and stay there for a while it will be alot cheaper than what you are taking now. also, try to split the 8mg pills for as long as you can bc they are much cheaper than the 2mg pills. when i was tapering exercise helped alot so keep that in mind, i didnt think it would make a difference but it did. goodluck to ya!
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Unread 11-18-2007, 02:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wwwrothy

i'm 25 and have been on suboxone for 5 months. its saved my life. hands down. now it is expensive and i am looking to stop in the next 3 months or so.
Would you stop chemotherapy because the price became inconvenient? By your post you seem to realize addiction treatment is a lifesaving proposition, why would you let economics put your life at risk? That is NOT the right reason to taper. As has been posted already, YOU MUST PACE YOUR TAPER WITH YOUR OWN BRAIN'S ABILITY TO HEAL, OR YOU WILL HAVE WITHDRAWAL. That's true whether you take sub or not.

Now, you may be able to taper just fine, I don't know if your treatment has been long enough or not, the only way is to try. But BEFORE you even consider it be sure everything in your life is ready. Make sure you have minimized to the degree possible and stress, depression, or things that could make y0ou anxious. Make sure you have cut ties with all drug sources, and found alternative ways to deal with whatever reason you took drugs in the first place. Otherwise, this recovery thing becomes a cycle, you don't want that , you want to end it once and for all, and move on with your life. The best way to do that is to do it right the first time.

Based on your post, I'm concerned about your expectations. Please be sure you educate yourself as much as possible about the science of addiction, and sub before attempting to taper off.

You are doing great so far. When I was 25, I knew everything and it took ten more years before I learned listening to the experts had better results than my way.

Welcome to the board,

Sub
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Unread 11-18-2007, 02:30 PM   #8
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I would recommend you read this, it might help put things into perpective

http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3599

Sub
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Unread 11-18-2007, 03:42 PM   #9
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Also if money is a issue. There is a program where u can get the medication for free.
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Unread 11-18-2007, 04:04 PM   #10
wwwrothy
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thank you all for the responses. i am sorry for the impatience i displayed. it just so much easier to find people currently ON suboxone and doing very well (myself included) than people who have successfully tapered.

my wanting to stop to suboxone is not necessarily a rushed thing. money is somewhat of an issue but not a huge one. this medication has made it possible for me to do things i honestly didnt think i had the ability to do anymore (i.e. hold a job, sleep well, not be preoccupied with getting high). Heck, i've even lost my desire to drink. I will stay on suboxone for as long as needed. I'm still waiting to hear back from the mva about my driver's license and believe me, im not getting off until i am 100% stable.

Its just that withdrawal does scare me. Suboxone does make me a feel a certain way when i take it. im not high by any means but there a therapeutic value to the drug of an almost antidperessant quality. Also constipation has remained throughout my 5 months thus far. my sleep has also been better than with ANY other type of sleep med. this includes ALL benzos (xanax, klonopin, etc) i think it is only normal to expect a downside to all this once i stop.

I dont think i would have to much of a problem going down to lower doses of the medication but what would happen when its gone? i dont know. it just seems with how my life is now (with lots of work and college) its seems hard to picture a time that will be "perfect" to stop the Suboxone. withdrawal effects my concentration, my mood, and basically every area of my life negatively.

My doc is $300/month which includes round the clock call backs, office visits , scripts, and basicaly internal medication needs. the pharmacy he works with does not take insurance so an 8mg pill comes to about $6. Wherei live it is RARE to find a doc who does suboxone right out of his office like this. its well worth it.

oh and KATIE, thanks for the help! good luck to you too.

rusty
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Unread 11-18-2007, 05:05 PM   #11
Mike
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Hi Rusty,
I had some of the same issues, turns out it more common than I thought. Constipation, no desire to drink, and fear of withdrawal. I tried a 30 sub detox first and ended up relapsing soon afterwards. Then I did a long treatment with no intention of ever getting off. But after a while I found I could take less and less sub, and comfortable. Eventually I was down to 1mg every other day, and after that would start to forget to take it. One day I realized it had been 3 days since my last dose, so I just quit. I had some insomnia, and felt a little lazy, but that's just about it. Oh I felt achy but realized later, sub is a pain med too and was hiding the everyday aches and pains everyone gets, so it really wasn't a withdrawal symptom.

So getting off can be done comfortably as long as you pace your taper with your brains ability to heal (you'll hear that a lot here)
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Unread 11-18-2007, 06:21 PM   #12
wwwrothy
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mike, yea sounds like we have a lot of similarities. how are thing snow though that you're off the sub? as of now i am not ready to get off the suboxone. and i can easily be on the med for 5 more months if needs be. i understand GI problems and insomnia are going to come. I just sleep too well! its really a blessing bc ive struggled with insomnia since i was very young. how are you craving for opiates?

its scary to think about relapse. the other day i was talking about opiates ot a friend and soon enough i was having euphoric recall and craving. now this doesn't mean i would have use had i been off the suboxone, but scary nonetheless.

do you know the "feeling" am i describing when i talk about the sub? the antidepressant, somewhat energetic "normal" feeling? ive reached this with lower doses and im sure i can again. its just that on an 8mg in the morning and another 8mg at night, im perfect. im safe, im happy, i sleep well, im focused and grounded. but say another type of medical situation comes up? who knows i guess anything could happen. the ole "if its not broke, dont fix fit" motto may apply here. i would like to stand own to feet at some point ya know?
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Unread 11-18-2007, 07:10 PM   #13
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Hey, am on also on the same boat as you about tapering & fearing the withdrawals & Paws, but ive been on Subutex for the last 2 & half years now, this other site called opiate detox people are so negative, they all keep posting bad experiances like you will get WDs for months, years, some even permanent, they all complain & make it very fearful, but on this site its more positive like example of Mike who tapered in a way successfully compared to people who have found it a struggle & relapsed, excercise is good, very good, trust me, you can feel like bit of normality with that, by the way Mike how long was your taper? when you got to 2mgs or 1mg did you go under that? do you think it will be easier getting off at 0.4/0.25 or 0.5 anything under then 1mg or at 1mg or 2mg? by the way worhtxxx i hear the longer you stay on sub the harder it will be to come off & let ya brain to heal, now this is NOT my view but most ppl seem to say this, i say since ur at 5 months stage you shud try to reduce now, but thats me saying, whether you need to stay on this longer is necessary i dunno, but if i was u i wud try reducing now, but anyway good luck, Peace.
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Unread 11-18-2007, 07:22 PM   #14
OhioMike
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thank you all for the responses. i am sorry for the impatience i displayed. it just so much easier to find people currently ON suboxone and doing very well (myself included) than people who have successfully tapered.
************************************************** *******

On this site you can find both!

The information you need to successfully get the best results out of Suboxone Therapy, from start to finish are contained herein. Keep reading, keep asking questions, even if they seem small at the time and go back and read through old posts. This is a process and Suboxone is but one part of it. The process is what is important and IMO if we work a good process, then we can enjoy the success many here have enjoyed both in getting off Suboxone and living without it.

Best of luck.

Mike
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Unread 11-18-2007, 07:31 PM   #15
OhioMike
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W Ali,

Sadly we can and do have bad experiences coming off Suboxone. However, our focus (us who still have that in front of us) should be to learn from those who have struggled and to follow the paths of those who have not. I know this, no matter what I am facing in life, if I go into it with negative thoughts or fear, then I cannot expect the best possible results. However, if I go into it with a positive, victorious and upbeat frame of mind, then more times than not I can achieve my goal and obtain favorable results. IMO we need to realize that a great deal goes into recovery, it is a broad process with many bases to cover, how well we are at addressing each base can effect how well we do in coming off Suboxone. Between Mike, Mary, Ros and others, the guides are there, not just for Suboxone it's self, but, for the process!

finally and IMO I know this, I could not taper from my DOC but, I can and have continually been able to lower my Suboxone dose. So I do not need big words, long thought out responses or clinical studies to tell me that my 'brain' is doing better on Suboxone than it did on my DOC and that was my goal and reason for taking Suboxone. further, I have been on opiates long enough to know that here is no free pass when we stop taking them, but, as successful stories have demonstrated, there can be better ways and that is what I am seeking.

Thanks for bringing up good points to comment on.

Mike
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Unread 11-18-2007, 09:21 PM   #16
wwwrothy
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yes i agree wholly that a life on the sub is many many times better than when i abused prescription meds. i can lower my dose and do not "feel" addicted to it whatsoever. my head is clear and my body feels normal. and since i abused opiates for over 5 years, i can handle 5 months and more on sub. but im sorry i picture a long annoying process of getting off this stuff at some point. withdrawal is bad enough but the post acute anxiety that is likely to follow for god knows how long is daunting. this is basically what always kept me relapsing. i would have the week or so of nasty withdrawal beat then after a month or so the anxiety, sweats, and all the othe rlittle goodies just made like crappy enough for me to throw up my arms. but while on suboxone i finally feel like normal. BUT i do feel that each month more that im on it, the longer im making my PAW and other nasty post-suboxone symptoms.
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Unread 11-18-2007, 09:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wwwrothy

BUT i do feel that each month more that im on it, the longer im making my PAW and other nasty post-suboxone symptoms.

Why do you feel this way?

~josie
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Unread 11-18-2007, 10:10 PM   #18
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Hey rusty

It's my understanding that being on suboxone longer would actually reduce the post withdrawal symptoms (I'm not positive about that, but I think so). I've known two people personally that successfully tapered from suboxone, one was a friend I had used with and he basically got through it pain free and never had any problems with school. It took him about 9 months from when he started taking it, but he was one of the most driven people I have ever met. (btw his maintainence dose was 8mg). The other one I knew through NA and she did pretty well except she said she had the worst time sleeping afterwords for several weeks and for about 3 to 4 weeks after taking it she was really lethargic. I think she was off about 6 months after she started (I'd be willing to bet that if she had spaced it out longer that she would have done better)

I've had a lot of experience with suboxone at this point and I know exactly the feeling you're refering to. I've noticed that in my whole life the time that I've had the fewest issues with depression was when I was doing my maintainence dose of 16mg. Everytime I've gotten below 8mg, the depression and its physical symptoms start to return.

BTW, I don't think anyone was trying to ignore you or anything like that, I think for the most part people are comfortable talking about what they've already been through and much fewer people have been through what you're talking about.

-Stephen
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Unread 11-19-2007, 02:30 PM   #19
wwwrothy
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i was talking about the withdrawal and post acute withdrawal cause by the suboxone....longer use = worse withdrawal. seems to be the case with any opiate or addictive drug for that matter
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Unread 11-19-2007, 03:11 PM   #20
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Hi wwwrothy, PAWS is caused by the changes made to the brain. The inability to produce natural endorphins, and the pyschological ones caused by actions in active addiction. The people who have been successful with little to slight WDs and no PAWS are the ones who took their time tapering (like JStephen's friend and many here) and didn't rush themselves. Give this link a read, it explains a lot of things which will help answer your question.

http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2669

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Unread 11-19-2007, 03:52 PM   #21
Suture
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wwwrothy

i was talking about the withdrawal and post acute withdrawal cause by the suboxone....longer use = worse withdrawal. seems to be the case with any opiate or addictive drug for that matter
NOT AT ALL TRUE!! Suboxone doesn't cause PAWS
It is all explained here: http://naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3583
S-
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Unread 11-19-2007, 04:00 PM   #22
Suture
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Tim
Addiction is a chronic brain disease that persists long after the drugs have left the body, months or even years. Many believe once the detox phase is complete it is just a matter of willpower after that, but that is not the case. This misconception is further compounded as most patients can recall a time when they would stop their drug of choice, have withdrawal for a few days, and then emerge without any long-term withdrawal. That is what happens during the initial stages of physical dependenceÃà ‚‚ÃÂà ‚Â‚ÃƒÂƒÃ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â”. With addictionÃà ‚Â‚ÃƒÂ‚Ã‚Â‚ÃƒÂƒÃ‚ÂƒÃƒÂ‚Ã ‚” an additional set of brain changes occur. These changes happen unnoticed and are more profound and long lasting. This is when normal physical dependence (a condition that generally reverses itself a couple weeks after stopping the opioids) becomes addiction, a whole different animal, with long term effects.

With addiction, the brain has been changed in a different way than when starting to take opioids. It can take many months or even years of treatment, before behavioral tools alone can keep the patient from relapsing. Repeated failures at consecutive short term treatments can leave the patient feeling hopeless or even blaming the treatment itself for their symptoms. The fact is these symptoms would still exist even if buprenorphine treatment had never begun, as it did before bupe treatment was available.
The long term symptoms of addiction is PAWS (Post acute withdrawal syndrome) The only way Suboxone could cause PAWS is if you became addicted to it, and that is rare. Most people stop addictive behavior when they start sub, and the brain begins to heal.

There is quite a bit on this site about this, but be sure you are clear on the difference between physical dependence and addiction.
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Unread 11-19-2007, 06:08 PM   #23
wwwrothy
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so you're saying PAWS is psychological? because after 5 months on sub i assure you i am physically addicted and if i stopped cold turkey right now i'd be in a world of hurt. i would also say there is some psychological addiction to in that i know i keeps me safe, clean, grounded, and energetic
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Unread 11-19-2007, 06:22 PM   #24
Suture
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wwwrothy

so you're saying PAWS is psychological?
nope.
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Unread 11-19-2007, 06:50 PM   #25
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wwwrothy, here's a link that explains the difference between addiction, physical dependence and tolerance:
http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#15

The repeated compulsive behaviors despite negative consequences during active addiction causes changes to the reward pathways of the brain, those can be changed through behavior modification. If that is not changed - say if someone only takes bupe but does not change behaviors - that could result in lingering PAWS because the brain has not changed back to pre-addiction state.

Please read through the links provided to you so you can more fully understand.
Hope this helps.
Nancy
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Unread 11-19-2007, 08:45 PM   #26
wwwrothy
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i guess im talking lingering physical symptoms. we all know opiate withdrawal with its GI problems, anxity, cold sweats, chills, insomnia, cravings, terrible stuff. im talking more of a lingering insomnia or social anxiety. that suboxone just seemed to shut down or atleast hid...
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Unread 11-21-2007, 07:10 AM   #27
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It's different for everyone, that's the thing. IF you had social anxiety before, likely you'll have some and at a hightened sense for a while. If you were a hermit before drugs, then again you may be to a larger extent when coming off for a while. It's all about how you choose to use your time. If you have social problems, then try to start learning tools now on how to cope with them. The whole point of sub is to find out our weaknesses in real life sober and attack them while on sub, so when you finally get off, you'll have some tools to fight the problems back sober. The paws are really you getting by sober again. It sucks sometimes at first and usually a person on opiates for a long time aren't use to having to be sober, so no matter what opiate you detox off of, sober isn't comfortable unless you make your mind right going into a sober life. Get some workout exercise stuff set up, get some help from a therapist if you had depression before, talk to na/aa people if that's what you want to do and talk about your weaknesses.. People that discuss their inner weaknesses in a public forum will have some self liberation and can start to put together a picture of how to overcome those weaknesses.

Good luck.
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Unread 12-12-2007, 12:56 PM   #28
Mike
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I was on sub for 3 years, and in that time everyday I thought about drugs less and less and as I forgot about them and the people I did them with, they became less and less significant in my life. I filled my idle time with other activities, and all of these things together with time, helped change my brain. When I started to taper, I wasn't sure I would ever get of completely and didn't really care life was good, but I found as i got lower I'd forget to take sometimes so just decided to stop. I had some insomnia and felt a little crappy for a couple weeks, but not enough to miss a day of work. I had no PAWS (although did have it years ago when I would quit)and now 2years and 9 months later opioid addiction is in my past and not a problem for me at all today. For those who don't know I was doing 10-20 bags of H of 10 years.

For me the time was important but not everyone needs that much time. If I rushed it in 5-6 months I surely would have failed.
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Unread 12-12-2007, 01:59 PM   #29
Mary
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I was on sub for one year after a 20-ish year H fling. Started at 16. I took my time, didn't freak about it. Took 2 months to go from 2mg to 0, .5 drops every 2 weeks. I had very few WD symptoms. Crappy sleep, some jiggly legs. Nothing that stopped me from working. It really was a hell of a lot easier than dealing with a cold or the flu. No PAWS either.

I've been off sub for a year and a half with no thought about going back to H or sub. -Mary
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Unread 12-12-2007, 03:16 PM   #30
wwwrothy
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thanks mary. now there's a clean-cut response. i guess i am only hope and pray that its true! jk. so how much were you on per day for that year?
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Unread 12-12-2007, 03:48 PM   #31
Mary
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Here's the rundown. http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=522
Started at 16 in June 05, then went to 12 like 3 months(?) later then to 8 by Jan. 06 to 4 then 2ish to 2 then 2 months to 0.

Here's Emma's gig, she didn't have problems:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1649

Stace has been off for almost a year now. She went to crumbs and then stopped one day.
There's other stuff in here:
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1159

Then Bill (BAM!)
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2029
http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2073

If I think of other stuff, I'll get back to you. -Mary
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Unread 12-12-2007, 03:52 PM   #32
mark123
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Hello Rusty,

I have social anxiety. I have had it well before starting Sub.

I am on Zoloft which has really helped with the social anxiety.
In fact, it has completely turned my life around for the better.

I agree that you should taper slowly, but maybe you might consider other medication to help with things like the social anxiety.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

Mark
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Unread 12-12-2007, 04:44 PM   #33
OhioMike
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WWW,

You are looking for absolutes where there are none. Recovery, Sub Therapy and Sub Taper each come with many variables based on each person and how they approach it. However, you can learn how to build a plan which is good for you, based on what has worked and what has not worked for others. There is a certain amount of trial and error, but, the goal is to have that over with prior to taper, along with many other things as well. There is no clear cut black or white, cookie cutter answer.

Build yourself your own recovery plan, one which you are pleased and comfortable with. Don't let others short comings or stumbles build fear in you. Educate yourself.

Learn from those who have struggled or failed and follow those who have succeeded!

OMike
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Unread 12-12-2007, 05:39 PM   #34
Sandy23
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why do u wanna stop it so soon?
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Unread 12-17-2007, 06:53 PM   #35
wil
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WWWorthy,
thought IÂà‚Â’d post for first time in several mths. I've gone from daily to only checking or lurking at this site occasionally but your post struck me in that I personally know of my gfÃÂ‚àƒ‚Â’s successful taper. IÂà‚Â’m reluctant to add my deal to that as I am still taking sub, albeit less than 1 mg a day, nevertheless still officially not off sub completely. My friend, JT, was on sub after a couple years of oxy snorting resulting in about 240 to 300 mg a day. She started at around 24mg of sub and slowly tapered to about .5 mg a day in about 10 months. She had relativelyÂàƒÃ‚ƒ‚” minor problems on the end. Fatigue mainly for about 2 weeks.

Here are a few other examples of people I donÃ‚àƒ‚Â’t personally know, maybe they will read this and elaborate on their tapers.

I think this post is from MaryÃ‚àƒ‚Â…Wil
It just goes to show how everyone is different. I didn't have a problem after a year on sub and like 20 years snorting H. Very little wd, no cravings, no PAWS, nada, zilch, nothing. Well maybe a little sleep disturbance for a couple of weeks. But I'd feel like that again over getting the flu (which I recently had) any day of the week.ÃÂ‚Ãƒà ƒ‚”

Stacey(No Sub in '07) had the same experience as me, she did a nice long, slow taper too. So did Mike, so did Gwen, so did Ros, so did William. Those were long term peeps. Then we have the short-term peeps like Bill BAM!, Paul1270, MakHit. That's all I can remember now.

In addition to those Mary mentioned above.

fegbri
New Member
24 Posts Posted - 06/19/2007 : 08:52:52
________________________________________
Hey guys! Just wanted to give you an update. Sorry I haven;t posted, but the carzy thing is I have been busy LIVING LIFE!! I have been off sub for 3 months now. Not one single symptom! I sleep great, feel great, and have such a happy attitude! After 4-5 years of opiates, and 80 days on sub, I am finally back to normal. I got to AA meetings every week or so. The most important thing is to NEVER forget how horrible I felt because of these drugs. ANYONE can do this. You have to have a taper program in place and LISTEN to your body. Thanks again for all your help.

Brian

Billyzack
Active Member
USA
35 Posts Posted - 05/25/2007 : 19:29:23
________________________________________
I haven't logged on to this site since quitting sub in January and if there is anyone that remembers me. I was going to try to go to 1 mg and off after that in January. I did go to 1 mg from 2 mgs with absolutely no problems and by pure accident, I dropped from 1 mg to nothing. My docgtor prescribed me some blood pressure medicine and the pills looked exactly like 2 mg subs, I thought I was taking 1 ms and was taking nothing. After a week, I realized what I had been doing and I felt great so I threw the sub away and have been fine since. Don't know if the placebo effect was in place but all I felt was a bit tired but no biggie. All in all, I went from being a 7 year hydro addict to 8 mg sub to nothing in about 60 days. I took percocet when I had some dental work last months for 3 days and have been fine since. I don't know where I would get opiates even if I was craving them so I soon forget about them when I begin to think about them. Sub was a good thing for me and it did what it was supposed to do, I never felt bad or had any problems getting off of it. Good luck everyone!


The post below is from the other board. IÂà‚Â’m not sure of any copy restrictions but if credits are needed this is from the opium detox board.
Member
283 Posts Posted - Jun 23 2007 : 7:39:09 PM
________________________________________
Hi everyone,

I'm sure many of you don't remember me, but some might. I became addicted to painkillers seriously in 2003, and was taking up to 40 norco a day by the beginning of 2005. At that time I found a suboxone Dr. and started treatment after researching and coming to this site. I felt really lucky that I found people here who could help me make an informed decision. I did end up starting the treatment in 2/2005, and was not an ideal patient to say the least. I spent many months taking prescriptions of norco or any other pain pills and then w/d and taking my suboxone. It was a VERY bad scene that contributed to severe depression and anxiety. There were times that I would go ahead and take suboxone for 3-4 weeks, but whenever the opportunity arouse I took my hydro/oxy and then used the sub again to w/d. I would say this went on for almost a year and then a lightbulb just went on. I realized I just couldn't live this life anymore. I have 4 children, and I am ashamed to say all the terrible situations I put them in. They were very young at the time, and I was just an absent mother who was always with them. I can't believe nothing tragic ever happened during this time period. My Dr. was a private psychiatrist who I paid out of pocket, so it was very expensive, far away, and I finally realized I wanted to stop the process all together. In the early Spring of 2006 I told my dr. I wanted to taper off all together, and I started the process. I had taken a lot less sub than I had been given, so eventually I left the Dr. and decided to take the last prescription very slowly in smaller and smaller pieces until it was gone. This was probably April, and by June I was done to the very last little crumbles. I broke each piece of my last 2mg tabs into grains of sand and it took me literally a month to finish them. At the end I just licked powder. This worked for me......I wasn't on a time table, I just knew when it was gone, I was done. I had very little w/d if any. I remember the first few days with nothing I felt very heavy, but after a week I felt better than I had in the past 2 years.
I realized about 2 weeks later that I had really broken free of that physical hold. It made all the difference, and for me it was b/c I did it SO slowly.
So, if you've read this far, thank you. I have come back today because I realized that I'm just a few weeks away from being off everything (pain pills and sub) for an entire year. Physically I am totally normal now. I don't think I experienced much PAWS, but I was taking zoloft for my depression, but I did stop taking that as well about a year ago.
I really hope everyone is doing well.......I think of my time here and all the support I got so often.
I never thought I could say it's been a year, but it has, and I have no cravings or desires now to use.
Sub really helped me when I actually used it as it was intended. I know it's hard to detox off of, but for me the slow and steady worked, and I had been on it for over a year.

Take care everyone!


Gretchen
________________________________________
Edited by - gretchens4 on Jun 24 2007 09:22:18 AM


jwfk
New Member
USA
10 Posts Posted - 08/02/2007 : 12:51:17
________________________________________
i haven't written for a while. actually no on probably remembers me, but oh well. i just wanted to let everyone know that you can add me to the list of people who have successfully tapered off suboxone.

i wish to give thanks to my doctor who spent a long time talking to me. after our first conversation he figured out that i was very educated on suboxone before i even was inducted. he wrote the script and told me i could find the dose that worked for me. and that is what i did.

he at first suggested 16mg per day taken all at once. i did begin on that amount, but soon learned that it was too much. after the first week or so, i maintained on 4mg per day, all taken right after i woke up.

about two months into the 4mg per day, i just had a weird feeling that it was time to go down to 2mg per day, so i did. i noticed nothing. no withdrawal, no effects whatsoever. the same thing happened to me about a month ago. i was getting ready to take my 2mg and just then decided to go to 1mg. for about a week i stayed on 1mg per day. then spent about a week taking 1mg every other day. finally yesterday i knew i was done. i feel great. i feel the same as i did before this whole nightmare began.

i am proud of myself for taking the initial action of getting help. i knew that the pills i was taking were going to kill me in the quantities i used. there was a time i was chewing up 160mg of oxycontin per day. once that ran out i maintained on about 30 percocets per day. life was not fun anymore as i'm sure you are all familiar with.

i know that i have a lifetime ahead of me that is now going to be much easier that it could have been. i am an addict. being an active addict is hard work. it takes up most of your time and pretty much blanks out all feelings and emotions. you cannot participate in life when you're using. now i am free from that. it is just so much easier and happier now.

i have never sought counseling or support. no one knows i am an addict. i come to this board daily and consider it as my support. it really has helped me. i honestly owe my life to finding this website. i don't even remember how i found it in the first place. i am thankful for all of the people who post here often. i feel this site was the main tool in my recovery. i hate to think what life would be like without it.

so thank you to all. thank you to my doctor. i thank myself and my liver thanks me for stopping.

good luck to all of you, you're doing good work just being here and being part of this community.

please feel free to email me or respond. i do want to keep up with this site. it helps tremendously.

joe



This next post from ROE briefly notes his reduction completely off. However, I hope he will elaborate, as I remember him being one that reduced slowly to minimal amounts and still had a little trouble when completely off. Kinda the point IÂà‚Â’m at 8/4/07 and at around .5mg/day, wondering if IÂà‚Â’m going to have problems after a month bouncing around .25 to .75 and anticipating going to zero. At this date, I want to note an anxiousness to go completely off and an apprenhension at doing just that, due to a daily feeling of this lethargy or not rightness and tightness and lack of motivation that creeps into my daily routine. Wil

resurrection of evil
Active Member
Australia
31 Posts Posted - 07/20/2007 : 07:37:23
________________________________________
Hi Eve. IÂà‚Â’ve been on "0" now for almost a month (25 days) the last week I guess has been ok and IÂà‚Â’m now sleeping 6 - 7 hours a night. I often wake up at between 2:30 and 5:AM and read a book for an hour, then I go back to bed and sleep till 9 or 10. I still get the occasional mild WD feeling late in the afternoon. I was on Subutex for four years so in my case I think it will take longer to get back to normal. The first two weeks were the worst, and I dont take any drugs whatsoever except a habitual bottle of beer in the evening. I also gave up nicotine four weeks ago. Hope this helps. Paul.


beginagain
Senior Member
USA
198 Posts Posted - 08/26/2007 : 10:02:34
________________________________________
Hi - some will remember me though I haven't been around in quite a while. I just wanted to say a quick hello as I stopped by to offer a new Sub patient a little support.

I finally made the leap off on July 8 of this year. I was on Sub a little over 15 months total. In the end I tapered down to crumbs and then crumbs every other day. It wasn't as bad as my brain told me it was going to be. I waited until I was away for 2 weeks on vacation and just stopped taking it one day. Besides some insomnia and sweating and a little anxiety I did fine. It was extremely mild and I think being out of my usual element helped alot. The cravings have not returned which was my second greatest fear about stopping - I have had a few "fleeting thoughts" but with a little work in a program of recovery and continued weekly therapy sessions I have handled those just fine. Mostly staying busy has been the key for me.

Just wanted to say a quick hello and I will try to stop by a little more often. I am grateful I found this place when I desperately needed information and support. This is a great "safe" place for people who have made the Sub choice and I continue to refer folks here when appropriate. Blessings to you all on your journey.


emma4484
Active Member
55 Posts Posted - 09/07/2006 : 15:22:05
________________________________________

Hello everyone, AS I PROMISED TIM ,I'm back to share my tapering experience. As of today, I have been off sub for 2 weeks AND I feel GREAT! My doctor had said in the begining, if you taper right and jump at 2 mgs, ( I started at 32 ) I would feel NO withdrawl, and he was right. I just want to give hope to all of you that are agonizing over the thought of being completley off subutex. YOU WILL BE OKAY! Staying at 2 mgs forever is like holding on to the lifejacket, you just don't want to let go, of the medicine, of the whole way of thinking, of feeling in the safety zone. Before I continue, I would like to clearly outline my taper, as it was completley succesfull for me.

MONTH 1- 16mg in AM 8mg pm
MONTH 2-4 SAME
MONTH 5- 8mg am 8 mg pm
MONTH 6-8mg ( can be split and taken at different times, but best to completley eliminate 1 dose altogether )
MONTH 7- First week, 6 mgs a day, second week 4mgs a day, 3rd and 4th week 2mgs a day.
MONTH 8-OFF SUB FOR GOOD!!!!

I would like to say that without sub I could have never learned to live clean. But to get off drugs and medication you will absolutley need WILLPOWER and DESIRE to live clean. My doctor prescribed me 1mg clozepam in case I experienced restlessness or disomfort, I only used one on the first two nights to ensure I could sleep. Of course, you will ALWAYS be an addict, there will always be temptation and that mental craving that you will have to live with for the rest of your life. I went to my first ever NA meeting last night, I can't tell you how nervous I was, but it was such an uplifting experience to be around people who totally understand, support, and don't judge you. I reccomend if you are having a hard time staying clean after getting off sub because of cravings or otherwise, try NA. I am also seeking counseling to seek the true root of my addiction, as I have been depressed most my life and depression and addiction go hand in hand, You must face your addiction head on, with all your strength, and battle it to the death. DON'T be afraid to ask for help. The best thing I did in going off the last 2mg of sub was to have a positive attitude and instead of dreading it look forward to it as a new chapter in your life. Don't think you are going to withdrawl or feel miserable, at 2mgs it IS mind over matter. PAWS is a experience you have when going off DRUGS such as heroin or opiates, NOT sub. The point of sub is that it gets your brain working and producing the right chemicals, it is fixing you so you can eventually be in a better place, as before the drugs had made your brain stop producing chemicals it needs to naturally be happy. Simply put, YOU DO NOT GET PAWS FROM SUB. And to all that are abusing sub, you are A) taking the place of someone who wants to get better and B) You are still living the life of an addict so what is the point?


I just want to send a message of CELEBRATION, and HAPPINESS and most importantly SUCCESS! I have succeded in my treatment and am now celebrating two weeks with no sub, life is a good thing. I never thought I could go off sub, but I did and you can without PROBLEMS or WITHDRAWLS if you taper correctly. I just want to wish everyone luck and support. GOOD BYE AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL! peace and love

P.S. THANK YOU TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE HELPED AND SUPPORTED ME, NANCYB AND TIM ESPECIALLY, SUPPORT IS SOOOO IMPORTANT IN RECOVERY, DON'T GO IT ALONE!




IÂà‚Â’m sure this is not a complete list of people kicking an opiate addiction using Sub. As for myself, a few mths ago my doctor pointed out to me that I was probably foolishly putting the cart before the horse to try to taper completely off sub while still somewhat dealing with a drinking problem and continued smoking as IÂà‚Â’m an alcoholic and diagnosed with COPD due to chronic bronchitis and emphysema. Not to worry though as IÂà‚Â’m currently addressing both those addictive deals and am comfortable at between .5 and 1 mg sub until I actually get them under control. Best to all, Wil

PS I will add that especially at the end and around 2 mg and below, hell, for that matter anything below 8 mg, the subutex is infinitely easier to handle and split into 1mg, .5 mg, and even .25 mg slivers. Has a lot to do with subutex being flat, oblong, firm, and easily split with a single edge razor blade. Best, Wil
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