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Unread 11-02-2007, 01:33 PM   #1
TIM
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Default Ultra-rapid detox (UROD)

Rapid-Detox:
Also called UROD (Ultra-rapid-opioid-detox) is an expensive procedure carried out in an ICU and the patient requires hospitalization. The patient is injected with very high doses of an opiate antagonist (naloxone) under general anesthesia or heavy sedation followed by a slow infusion of low dose naloxone. Proponents of the procedure claim that complete accelerated detoxification is attained, the patient experiences no withdrawal symptoms, physical dependency is eliminated, and the psychological craving for drugs is greatly reduced. However, medical experts disagree. Some have called it malpractice and a fraud. In a comprehensive study published in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in 2005 the scientists concluded, "Anesthesia-assisted detoxification should have no significant role in the treatment of opioid dependence" (read the study here). more: http://naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm#23

Some high profit peddlers of this unproven method, may try and take advantage of people at their most vulnerable time. They will try and use people’s lack of understanding to scare them into this risky expensive procedure. The best way to combat this and protect yourself and your loved ones is through education. The facts are out there, it just takes time to decipher them. IMO- the most important thing is to learn the difference between "physical dependence” and "addiction”. They use people's misunderstanding of these terms to manipulate them by taking things out of context and presenting them as fact. Having a clear understanding of these terms will help protect you from the misinformation.

Physical Dependence --Normal physiologic state of adaptation to a substance, the absence of which produces symptoms and signs of withdrawal. This is NORMAL and happens to any patient taking high dose opioids for a long period of time. Patients with severe pain who require high doses of opioids, will become "physically dependent” this is normal and does not affect their treatment or quality of life, it is NOT addiction and therefore doesn’t require treatment.

Addiction-- Addiction is characterized by behaviors that include one or more of the following: impaired control over drug use, compulsive use, continued use despite harm and craving. This behavior ruins lives, this is a disorder an unlike physical dependence it may require treatment. The goal of the treatment is to stop this dangerous addictive behavior.

More on "Physical Dependence” vs. "Addiction”
http://naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3930

Tim
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Unread 11-02-2007, 03:02 PM   #2
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Tin clearly you have taken notice of the latest propaganda from Waismann!

Mike
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Unread 11-02-2007, 04:03 PM   #3
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Hi Tim and Mike.

There was that time when I was most vulnerable and would have jumped at it if I had the money, (a time before I started the sub treatment). I don't have the time to check out the links and would trust your opinions on this question:

What happens to a person's brain physiology when they go through this detoxification method?

Does it not remain the same hence the withdrawals remain ie: lethargy, tiredness, lack of motivation, depression? I can't imagine this working as I have been off for periods before and just could not hang to save my life. The bupe was the only thing that kept me from the old pattern of relapse.

Again, I respect you guys enough to value your opinions on this.
TIA Jim
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Unread 11-02-2007, 04:16 PM   #4
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Hey Jim,

I made an appointment to have it done! Thankfully I backed out, after getting advice from family members who are in the medical field. Honestly, I now know I would have failed had I taken that step and honestly, I don't think I would have bounced back from that failure. I was done, cooked, fried, hopeless, guilt ridden, shame ridden and very, very scared. I don't think I would have had a second fight in me.

I will pass the answer to the question off to Tim or Suture as they have a much better handle on the specific reactions within the brain. Great question and I too would like to know.

Mike
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Unread 11-02-2007, 05:39 PM   #5
Fish
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Mike,
"I was done, cooked, fried, hopeless, guilt ridden, shame ridden and very, very scared. I don't think I would have had a second fight in me."

I so love the way you make it sound like me!
Jim

Please say a prayer for me today as I am headed to court to face the music, (DUI) Thanks
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Unread 11-02-2007, 06:57 PM   #6
OhioMike
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Well Jim, stand tall, look'em in the eye and tell them the truth. And let them know your damn glad to be in recovery and damn glad to have your life back!

Will be thinking of you!

Mike
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Unread 11-02-2007, 07:25 PM   #7
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Thanks Tim for that taste of UROD.

I hope that everybody who thinks of that option, really ponders what opiate addiction is and studies what is actually happening in the brain. I have, and I have used Naltrexone, personally, to come off some short acting opiates. Maybe 10mg at the most. I almost killed myself that time.

Unfortunately, it's not the physical withdrawals I worry about these days, it's the mental reclusiveness that is so hard to heal. I've been trying to heal for a decade. Anybody who thinks after 4-5 days in a RAPID DETOX facility will come out OK, is mad.

Doug
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Unread 11-02-2007, 08:49 PM   #8
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I put UROD right up there with all the e-mails in my spam folder that promise to add 1 to 2 inches to my dude - all for a price of course!! [8)]
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Unread 11-02-2007, 08:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sandfrog

I put UROD right up there with all the e-mails in my spam folder that promise to add 1 to 2 inches to my dude - all for a price of course!! [8)]
You said a mouthful (no pun intended)

I agree it all about the $$$$$$$

Taylor[:I]
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Unread 11-02-2007, 09:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Fish

Hi Tim and Mike.

There was that time when I was most vulnerable and would have jumped at it if I had the money, (a time before I started the sub treatment). I don't have the time to check out the links and would trust your opinions on this question:

What happens to a person's brain physiology when they go through this detoxification method?

Does it not remain the same hence the withdrawals remain ie: lethargy, tiredness, lack of motivation, depression? I can't imagine this working as I have been off for periods before and just could not hang to save my life. The bupe was the only thing that kept me from the old pattern of relapse.

Again, I respect you guys enough to value your opinions on this.
TIA Jim
That is a great question and this is how I understand it. This is also the consensus of a number of expert physicians on the matter.

Remember there are two separate sets of brain changes that can occur. Those associated with physical dependence (PD) and those associated with Addiction. Nearly all people who are opioid addicted are physically dependent too, but the opposite is not necessarily true, people can be physically dependent and not be addicted. For example a pain patient who always takes the medication as prescribed and remains at a stable dose, without cravings for the drug or the desire to seek more.

So, someone only physically dependent (PD) employing UROD, may be able to avoid the worst part of the acute withdrawal, compared to quitting cold turkey, however, they could accomplish the same thing by tapering the opioid they are taking, or using buprenorphine or methadone to assist in a short taper. Changes to the brain resulting from physical dependence, tends to correct it self in a couple of weeks. So a PD person may emerge symptom free in a few weeks. They would with the other methods too, and without the risk of death, and without the substantial cost.

People who are truly addicted, have had many more and longer lasting brain changes. This is why addiction is called a disease, because of these changes to the brain resulting from chronic exposure to opioids AND compounded by compulsive addictive behavior. Even after these patients "detox” they are still left with these brain changes. These brain changes manifest as milder protracted withdrawal that lasts for many months. This can be depression, malaise, hyper-sensitivity to pain, insomnia, and other symptoms also known as PAWS (post acute withdrawal symptoms). Very few of these patients do not relapse without ongoing treatment for their brain disease. They are told "the drugs are out of your body now, the rest is up to you”, and yes the drugs are out of the body, but that has nothing to do with the brain disease of addiction. It takes a long time for the brain to adapt back, new pathways must be created and old ones must fade away. In the meantime the patient is suffering, but under the assumption any failure is on their part and not a failed treatment protocol.

So IMO- it comes down to this. The only people who will do well with UROD (assuming they survive the procedure) are those who really didn’t need addiction treatment in the first place. People who are truly addicted will leave with a lower tolerance (putting them at higher risk of overdose death), but will still possess the brain changes caused by addiction.

By not making a distinction between PD and addiction, it could become very confusing as to why some patients do better than others.

This post explains some more detail:
Why are short term treatments less effective for addiction than long term treatments? http://www.naabt.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2669

This article is focused on alcohol but the brain disease is the same
http://www.alcoholanswers.org/alcoho...-addiction.cfm

Tim

For further reading reading:
The Neurobiology of Opioid Dependence: Implications for Treatment
http://archives.drugabuse.gov/PDF/Pe...s-Neurobio.pdf

Neuroscience of psychoactive substance use and dependence
http://www.naabt.org/documents/Neuro...ychoactive.pdf
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Unread 05-22-2009, 11:23 AM   #11
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I wanted to bump this up because I just found out a friend of a friend of mine just did a rapid detox for $20,000 and relapsed 2 days later. People need to be warned about this SCAM!! We all want a quick fix, and they make it sound really good, but it doesn't work! and it's dangerous. Detox does nothing to fix the disease, it's still there and will cause relapse. Don't listen to me read what the experts say.
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Unread 05-22-2009, 02:01 PM   #12
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Addiction is not something that can be removed surgically, and that is the impression these people leave.

wayne
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Unread 05-22-2009, 02:27 PM   #13
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It seems the rapid detox people think that once the drugs are out of your system, that's it. Well, that's just the beginning, and you can accomplish the same thing by locking yourself in a room for 3 days and save a whole bunch of money. Only problem is no matter what for of detox you use, you still have the disease of addiction and will relapse in a short time. It's profitable for the rapid detox people to have you think the relapse was your fault and not the fault of brain adaptations that you don't have control over. That way they can blame you instead of their procedure and charge you for it again and again. It is a total scam, that kills some people. There's no quick fix, unfortunately.
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Unread 05-22-2009, 03:45 PM   #14
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I came very close to trying Rapid Detox. In fact, I was one final call away from scheduling it and traveling west to have it done. However, as I ended up doing with Suboxone I did a lot of research. As I think that Rapid Detox might work for some, it certainly would not have worked for me. I was not only past dependent and into active addiction, I was very deep into active addiction.

When I decided against Rapid Detox and contacted them telling them I changed my mind, I was very depressed as it seemed I would find no solid help for myself. Tapering and Cold Turkey had failed over and over, even with help from my fellows and my support line.

For someone in my situation Suboxone offered the long term help I needed to get in there and do things correctly in healing myself.

I think each medical aid has it's place and of course it's limitations. We need to take time in deciding which may be the best for our situations and then once we decide, we need to really educate ourselves so we can have the best results possible.

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Unread 05-22-2009, 03:51 PM   #15
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Getting off opiates, as hard as that is, is the easy part. Staying off is the most difficult part.

UROD fails to address what happens, post acute wd wise. Suboxone addresses both.

To some, staying off of opiates by using, yet, another opiate seems counter-intuitive. To those of us fighting the battle of addiction, taking the opiate, Suboxone, makes perfect sense.

wayne

Last edited by gotoffmdone; 05-22-2009 at 04:01 PM..
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Unread 05-22-2009, 10:13 PM   #16
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I was looking for treatment options once again this evening & came across the Waissmann method of UROD. I phoned the weekend/after hours # 310-927-7155 & spke to the lady who answered. She said this treatment takes 6 days in the hospital at a cost of $18,800.00!!!! Who can afford that. Dang, it's cheaper to stay on the drugs! No, that's not funny...but please...!!!
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Unread 05-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #17
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$18,800 might be worth it if it worked, but it doesn't. You leave on day 7 with the same diseased brain that you had going in, but you're 18K in the hole. A 2 week taper with bupe would accomplish the exact same thing for under $1000, or going CT for 6 days locked in hotel room somewhere would do the same thing. Of course none of those things would last and is why a longer term treatment plan is people who are actually addicted need.

If someone is not addicted and only physically dependent, they don't have the brain changes caused by addiction and would come out ok, but they could just taper off of theri DOC for nothing and achomplish the same thing. it is a scam that takes advantage of teh general public's misunderstanding of what addiction is. Glad you didn't get suckered in!
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Unread 05-23-2009, 04:54 PM   #18
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Actually I did an UROD. I went to my Sub Dr on day one without being in any wds at all. I had been taking Methadone for ten years. Took my last dose 24 hours prior to taking my first Sub. I was thrust violently into precipitated wds. For a week I felt as though I was at death's door. Taking 40mgs of Sub every day did not diminish what I was going through.

I suppose the same principle, as UROD, applied to my induction, since I was not in any wds to begin with. The Buprenorphine ripped all the methadone from my receptor sites, but was not a strong enough opiate to offer an equivilent replacement.

So, basically, what I did was an ultra rapid detox, but, instead of naloxone(or whatever they use), I supplanted the long acting, full agonist opiate, methadone, with the partial agonist Buprenorphine. Buprenorphine's inherent ceiling effect made it so that I was doomed to do suffer until enough time passed.

The only difference between the Waisman method and my ignorance, was my ignorance cost less, in terms of money. But more, in terms of pain, from being awake, and not under anesthesia.

wayne
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Unread 05-23-2009, 05:45 PM   #19
OhioMike
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What I find interesting, now years later is that Anthem was going to pay for me to do Rapid Detox. They had already pre-approved it. Keep in mind, this is the same medical insurance company which dropped me for taking Suboxone! Hmmmm
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Unread 05-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #20
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there have been at least 10 deaths from this detox method--there have probably been more, but they have been covered up. this is a very dangerous "treatment" and insanely expensive. it would be worth the money if it worked. not worth dying over..
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Unread 05-24-2009, 02:20 PM   #21
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I Also came close to inpatient detox as we were covered by insurance
it was a 75 mile trip to the nearest center just by luck an outpatient clinic
just barly told me that i could see a Doctor 30 miles away and this is how
i learned about suboxone i dont understand why there is not more info,
on (Sub) it can help so many ? and sure it would hurt these impatient clinics but it would also open more room's for people and addictions that
sub does not help or work for.
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Unread 06-04-2009, 05:01 PM   #22
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BEWARE of high-profit detox enterprises. Lately I’ve seen more and more advertising services for “Suboxone addiction”. Make sure you understand addiction well enough to not be taken advantage of by these crooks.

There are many non-evidence based addiction treatment programs that take advantage of the general public's misunderstanding of addiction and how to treat it. TV sensationalism sponsored by rehab/detox facilities portray a false image of what modern addiction treatment is. Many of these programs don’t have a medical doctor on staff. But more disturbingly they are ignoring the last 50 years of science that shows that addiction alters the brain and that these alteration influence decision making. It is these brain changes that are the essence of addiction. A detox which removes drugs from the body does nothing to treat these brain adaptations. Modern treatments like buprenorphine make detox obsolete and unnecessary as now you can painlessly transition to the treatment medication. A painful, expensive and risky detox procedure is no longer necessary. Buprenorphine is a threat to the high-profit enterprises, so they resort to misinformation to maintain market share.

Tim
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Unread 06-06-2009, 08:20 AM   #23
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About 10 years ago my brother went throught the rapid detox in Michigan. He got in a car accident that left him in the hospital for a month and he became addicted to morphine. He got $500,000 from the lawsuit from the accident and blew it all in two years on dilaudid. he decided to go to the rapid detox. It was $6000 back then. Two days after the detox he went out and got more dilaudid and O.D.ed because he did the same amount as before not thinking his body was "clean". To make a long story short, he ended up going to prison for four years for writing bad checks and there he turned his life around. He has been drug free for 7 yrs now. The point Im trying to make is what everyone else is saying, it takes your brain time to heal and you need to make life changes in order to be free from drugs. This rapid detox was horrible for my brother. Im so glad he made it. Deanna
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Unread 06-09-2009, 06:03 AM   #24
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I remember first hearing about it before they did it in the U.S. It was said to be the quick painless way to free yourself of h addiction. Go to Mexico, get an IV,WD, wake up & enjoy the beach! U are now done with h forever,& no pain at all!! I jumped at the miracle opportunity & called right away. They told me it would be tens of thousands of $$$, & my quick fix miracle quickly faded to something I couldn't afford at 18 with no $ to eat let alone even fathom to pay for URD. So I explained to the cheerful lady on the phone that therewas NO WAY I could afford it,& she said she'd send me some info anyway. I quickly got a fedex box containing a VHS tape & papers in the mail. It showed me paradise along with 30 seconds of a hospital bed. I put the info on my shelf hoping that 1 day I'd be able to afford this miracle cure. She called me a week later asking me what I thought of the info. I told her it looked great to finally "be free" of this problem but that there was no way I could ever afford it & thx. She called back a week later asking if I had a cc card or family that'd be willing to help. No but thx. They CONTINUED to call me up to 3 YEARS later asking if I'm ready to come down now!! No, still don't have the $$, pls stop calling me. They continued to call me until I moved!! Everytime me clearly telling them it's not gonna happen. If that's not something motivated by money I don't know what is. Then years later I come to find out what an awful experience it is & that ppl have died! You'd think our govmnt would do something about these places. Especially since they're now operating In the U.S.

Last edited by kitty77; 06-09-2009 at 06:07 AM..
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Unread 06-09-2009, 10:42 AM   #25
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deanna,
Wow, glad to hear your brother is doing well now after such an experience.

Kitty77,
Yes its all about the money, but you would think now that this rapid detox has been shown to be unnecessary, risky and expensive, that it would be banned or at least determined to be unethical. For now the best defense against such scams is an education about addiction and modern treatments.

Here is some new content for the www.naabt.org site that will go live later in the year.

Detox treatments are obsolete

Years ago before science proved that addiction alters the brain, detoxing the patient was thought to be adequate treatment. This consisted of removing all opioids from the body. Dangerous infusion of chemicals while the patient is under general anesthesia (rapid detox) is one method of detox, however remaining abstinent for a few days to a week accomplishes the same thing. It was thought that once the drugs were gone it’s just a matter of willpower and convincing the patient that drugs are bad. This overly simplistic view of addiction has since been proven to be inadequate. Since then addiction medicine has advanced and we now know that changes to the brain can persist for a long time and can influence behavior even years later. Modern treatments address these brain adaptations. Detox treatments only remove opioids from the body but do nothing to reverse the brain adaptations. Furthermore, detox lowers a patient’s tolerance increasing the dangers of fatal overdose, if the patient was one of the 95% that relapse following detox treat treatments. Modern medical treatments for opioid addiction make expensive and risky detox treatments obsolete. With modern treatments patients can painlessly transition to the treatment medications without a detox period. Once cravings and withdrawal symptoms are suppressed the patient can begin to make positive long-term changes in their life that will rewire the brain and reverse some of the brain alterations suffering during active addiction. In addition the patient learns the techniques to deal with the brain alterations that cannot be undone, that will be needed for sustained addiction remission after the medication phase of treatment is over.

Buyer beware
Entire industries have been based on the obsolete detox model of addiction treatment. Modern treatments and advancements threaten the financial wellbeing of some of the established detox businesses. Some prey on vulnerable people suffering from addiction by distorting what addiction is and what effective treatment is all about. One tactic they use is to not differentiate between addiction and physical dependence. The idea is to make you think that any medication is bad and the only pure form of addiction treatment is detox, over and over as many times as it takes, providing the patient survives. They don’t want people to accept that addiction alters the brain and to correct the uncontrollable compulsive nature of addiction these brain adaptations must be treated.

Beware of non-regulated herbal miracle preparations. Supplement marketers don’t know more about addiction treatment than the scientific community. There is no magic herb that makes withdrawal easy and cures addiction. Remember withdrawal is a symptom of changes to the brain, any addiction treatment that is to be effective long term must address these brain changes.
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Unread 06-09-2009, 10:53 AM   #26
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Yeah......I thought about that UROD also and I kept thinking to myself....How does that work? I have been in AA long enough to know that (at that time I had relapsed again and was looking for a new answer....and UROD came up!) what the heck do you do about the thinking that happens after the detox! I had been "Clean" detoxed off opiates MANY times before....Through weaning off, cold turkey detox, detox centers, treatment centers, out patient programs, switching drugs, you name it I had tried it and ALL that the end result was always about the thinking that made me relapse! So when I researched the UROD I came back to the thinking! What happens with the thinking! That is what stopped me! At the time it was around $10,000 and they just said you would be free of opiates when you left! WOW...FREE of opiates! BUT shit.....I'd been free of opiates MANY times! I wanted to be free of addiction! WHO out there can promise me that?????
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Unread 06-09-2009, 11:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotitang View Post
.....I'd been free of opiates MANY times! I wanted to be free of addiction! ...
Great quote!
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Unread 06-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #28
TIM
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Hi,
Here is a new page about UROD- ultra-rapid-opioid-detox
http://www.naabt.org/urod.cfm
Tim
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Unread 06-19-2013, 12:04 AM   #29
gotoffmdone
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They give the impression that addiction is something that can be surgically removed. The nap may be ok but I would guess waking up would be pure hell.

I wonder if there are legit stats available concerning the success rate of keeping you addiction in remission. I basically did a UROD when, after taking ten years of methadone at 400mgs and my last dose 24 hours before induction. That is what the UROD I imagine would have felt like minue the anesthesia. What I did was no different than what they did. We both used medication to displace or dislodge all out full agonist opiate from our receptor sites. The only difference I did not have the luxury to sleep through it before feeling like death warmed over. Of course they do not use Sub but after taking 400mgs of Sub as long as i did and induct with all that methadone in my system, taking Sub was like taking nothing. It took about 8 days before I could see. I never did feel the Sub kick in. I was through with opiates or i would not have been so foolish but that was the quickest way I knew to rid myself of the effect of methadone. I would do it differently as no one need to suffer they way i did. But thinking Sub would offer a replacement was wishful thinking. I should have let the precip wd run it course then be done with it all. I never had craving issues, methadone saw to that. If my hope taking Sub was to avoid or make the wds a bit easier on my well that plan feel through. I honestly cannot recall a day when I felt as though I was taking Sub. Only the day I stopped taking it after a few yrs. Now I have a sub dependency which is by far better than having a fullblown addiction to any opiate, methadone at the top. The only thing I found that would suppress methadone wds was more methadone. I became terrified that one day i would need something strong for pain. I wanted off methadone before that day came. Ironically it was when i stopped taking methadone that I realized just what level of pain was being masked.

wayne

wayne
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