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Unread 11-29-2006, 03:24 PM   #1
DJone
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Default What if Suboxone were to be administered this way?

Hey everyone,

I'm new here, but definitely not new to drugs.

So I would like to first introduce myself and also send a good morning and hello to everyone!

My name is Mike, I'm 23 years old, from Maine and...

I just recently kicked methadone if you will, cold turkey from 180mg/day for 10 mos. on 09/11/06.

Worst 3-4 weeks of my life from the withdrawals, but best decision I ever made.

Now I want to make it clear I am not trying to be bias nor am on one side or the other of saying methadone sucks/is the best, bupe sucks/is the best, or both of them suck/are the best. They either work for one-self or they do not. Simple.

For me, even at the high dose of Methadone I was on, I am currently on 2mg of Suboxone 2-3 times a day, some times. Most of the time it is one in the am and the other 8 hours later or in the pm sometime. The difference for me was night and day... when I was on methadone, I was always depressed and lazy, unmotivated, no matter what the dose even if I was stable on it for a while, and on top of that, I also gained 65 pounds which by the way is almost off of me now, already took off 40 pounds since 9/11.

Now I'm not too sure how this board is about abuse topics or what not, but I am just wondering exactly what the absorption rates are that have actually been researched as far as sublingual (under the tounge), insufllation (snorting), IV/IM (intraveinous/intramuscular injection), orally (swallowing), rectally (suppository or "plugging") etc. (If there are any that I missed).

This data is just because I am wondering since Suboxone (That is the topic here, not Subutex/Bupe by itself) is absorbed the best supposively sublingually because of the very large vein(s) under your tounge and the mucosal membrane surface, what about crushing up the pill and snorting it? I know a very large portion would be swallowed from the "drip" if you will but what about the amount that gets absorbed in the mucous membrane intranasally? And how does that absorption/affectiveness data compare to sublingual and the others? And the same with inserting the tablets rectally like a suppository since the membrane there is also ideal?

I am just wondering as to myself since I have seen no hard, true data on this topic and all of the possible routes of ingestion or what have you.

This topic is not meant to be about abuse of the drug, but the absorption rates and their administration routes.

Thanks for reading and in advance to those that reply! I'm sure if we get some good data, it will be of great use to everyone.

I look forward to moving in with this great community!

Thanks again!

Mike
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Unread 11-29-2006, 03:34 PM   #2
Brett
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Mike,

IMO if you take the suboxone any other way then prescribed that would be addictive behavier, also the nalexone could send someone into withdrawl. IMO we shouldnt discuss ways to abuse the medicine we are using for recovery. It works just fine as prescribed and intended by the manufacture, anything else is drug abuse. I have a smokless tobbaco habit and my absorbtion rates are low and if there was a medical proven safe way to take the medication other than under the tonuge I would do it.

Brett

PS. There is another way you didnt mention, it could be smoked like crack cocaine, that might be pretty good absorbtion
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Unread 11-29-2006, 03:37 PM   #3
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Hey Mike, welcome. What an interesting yet bizarre first post. The sub is meant to be taken sublingually for a reason. IV will send you into wds because of the naloxone. That's the easy one. Do really want to be snorting all the extra crap that's in a pill? Plus that's also addictive behavior. Would also make me wonder if the naloxone would do anything if snorted too. Guess I never thought too much about it. I'm not sure of pharmacology of it, but I'm thinking that that binding stuff in a pill isn't going to be good either being stuck up your butt or snorted up your nose.

Sorry I don't have any hard-science based answers except for the IV one. Hopefully you'll just keep doing the sublingual route to avoid any complications. -Mary
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Unread 11-29-2006, 04:58 PM   #4
DJone
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Anyone else have any thing else to add? Surely this topic has been brought up before...

Mike
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Unread 11-29-2006, 05:10 PM   #5
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DJone,
Check out Brett's topic called "Obsorbtion Rates."

Bassdad
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Unread 11-29-2006, 05:16 PM   #6
Mike
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The last thing I want to know is what the rectal absorption is…I don’t want my doctors orders to change. Part of recovery is willingly changing behavior, especially drug seeking and taking behavior. I think these issues would be best discussed with your counselor.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 08:51 PM   #7
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The compund is destroyed by any absorption through the GI system. the first pass thoruhg the liver wipes out over 90%. Any other admin route (transmucosal, sublingual, intranasal, IV, SQ) has a better rate and there are some that are better (opening up can of worms) than sublingual pill form. That is, however, the only FDA accepted way to prescribe and take. Until other forms are made and manufacturered for sale, thats what we've got.

Monotherapy Bupe (no naloxone) can be and has been given IV. The potential for concominant Benzo abuse is high this way and is not preferred in an outpatient setting.

Rectal? Well, again there's absorption through the musculature into the blood stream is possible, but I haven't thought of sticking a tablet up that way recently. Or ever for that matter.

Does that help?
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Unread 11-29-2006, 10:17 PM   #8
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I don't mean to be offensive in any way, but I don't see anything productive in discussing various ways of posssiby using sub. It is meant to be used sublingual under the tongue. Naloxone is added to the subutex, which then makes it suboxone, simply to prevent possible misuse as using it intravenously(suboxone) will cause preciptitated wd. End of story.

~josie
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Unread 11-29-2006, 10:30 PM   #9
spar7an117
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Actually, Josie, there are reasons including poor oral absorption, taste aversion, and a few others as to why this would be important. Although, I don't really see any of those here. But you'd be surprised how many patients I have educated that have a problem with the taste and need al alternate admin route.
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Unread 11-29-2006, 10:42 PM   #10
josie
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I didn't know that RB had done studies on any other form of administration other than sublingual.

~josie
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Unread 11-29-2006, 11:20 PM   #11
Leviticus 13 4
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I took sub to save my life. Anyone who doesn't take it because they don't like the taste isn't serious about recovery. If it tasted good, they would bitch about the shape or something.
LEV
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Unread 11-30-2006, 12:16 AM   #12
bam55
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by spar7an117

But you'd be surprised how many patients I have educated
You got that right.
Bill
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Unread 11-30-2006, 01:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DJone


I don't have your answers, but I definitely like the way you think.

I'm sure society does it's best to swat you down every time you display independent, inquisitive, and outside the box thinking.
Galileo's brilliance was rewarded with imprisonment, and Socretes was condemned to die for it.

...but it is not the rigid dogmatic followers who bring progress to the world, but only we the iconoclasts.
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Unread 11-30-2006, 03:20 AM   #14
DJone
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Rearden_Metal

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DJone


I don't have your answers, but I definitely like the way you think.

I'm sure society does it's best to swat you down every time you display independent, inquisitive, and outside the box thinking.
Galileo's brilliance was rewarded with imprisonment, and
Aristotle was condemned to die for it.

...but it is not the rigid dogmatic followers who bring progress to the world, but only we the iconoclasts.
I appreciate your reply and everyone elses. Let's keep this thread alive. Knowledge is power and that's what this thread was made for...

If you have a problem with having too much knowledge or using the power to become so called "drunk with power", than that is your choice and maybe this thread or even this board isn't for you.

This post should be sticky if anything. If you are serious about recovery, then reading and replying to this post shouldn't be an issue, nor should your reply have to be (But may be) bias in any way.

You have the power to click or not click any link on the entire internet. If you have clicked on a link that brought you to this page and find it offensive in any way, shape, or form, you also have the power to close the window without reading a word further than the topic or any word at all for that matter; and always will.

On that note, please carry on and discuss the original topic please, if there is a personal matter, you can always use e-mail.

Thanks everyone for your kindness, sincerity and respect.

Mike.
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Unread 11-30-2006, 03:34 AM   #15
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You can think out of the box and be as independent as you want. This is not about being dogmatic, but, to me, it is just being sensible. There is no point in trying to find other ways to use this medication. Some of that experimentation and being what one would like to call themselves, an independent thinker, is what probably lead to significant substance misuse in many.
I just don't think that a support forum for those with the disease of addiction is the best place to try to explore new routes of administering sub. I guess if people want to go and stick sub in various body orifices to find out how it works then they can do so; but it seems more reasonable to me to go with what has been scientifically proven to work.
Of course this is just my opinion, and I am certainly not arrogant enough to even begin to think that I have a smidgen of the intelligence of either Galileo or Aristotle.
~josie
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Unread 11-30-2006, 10:34 AM   #16
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Leviticus,

I don't come here as much as I use to, well acutally I do I just don't post as much as I use to. I just wanted to say to you:

You crack me up! You haven't much to say but everytime you do you sum it up in a nutshell and make sense!

As far as thinking outside the box...if we didn't, it would make for a very dull life........

I personally wouldn't mind knowing more about the question at hand.
Doris
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Unread 11-30-2006, 01:05 PM   #17
josie
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Most of us here are looking 1)an effective path to recovery 2)the best treatment option and 3)better education of the masses about the treatment that we have chosen, for ourselves or someone we love. Looking for alternate methods of taking a prescribed medication can really appear like an attempt to continue to manipulate and control one's drug use.


~josie
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Unread 11-30-2006, 05:19 PM   #18
DJone
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by josie

Most of us here are looking 1)an effective path to recovery 2)the best treatment option and 3)better education of the masses about the treatment that we have chosen, for ourselves or someone we love. Looking for alternate methods of taking a prescribed medication can really appear like an attempt to continue to manipulate and control one's drug use.


~josie
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on that reply because it all depends on what angle you look at this topic.

It seems as if you feel this topic has some kind of a hidden message or meaning about abuse.

And there are going to be many people that feel the way you do and a bunch that don't.

The reason this was posted or at least the main reason this thread was started by myself was to find out the absorbtion rates of different administrative routes to see how effective this med really is when used as directed (sublingually) or if there may be another way to get that little extra absorbtion that does and would not only lead to people's doses to decrease which is a good thing and perhqps even lengthen the time that the chemical is active in your system beyond it's already proven long half-life because of it's protein binding properties.

Now from this point on when I use the word "you" I am not referring to yourself (josie), just anyone in general (Just wanted to say that to be clear).

I also posted that this was to be mainly focused on the Suboxone, the combination of Buprenorphine and Naloxone HCL, not straight Buprenorphine (Subutex). However the main active ingredient in both meds is still Buprenorphine so that's what the discussion is to and remain to be about. Because whether you are prescribed Suboxone or Subutex, they are both told to be administered sublingually. [Administer deleted content here]-EDWARD

Now...

Obviously, Suboxone (Because of the Naloxone HCL added to the Bupeprenorphine) is not for IM or IV, but, say if we were talking Subutex, straight Buprenorphine that would equate to 95-100% bioavailability.

Now if you really wanna get technical, obviously if a med is in pill or tablet or capsule form or any other form than a sterile ampule made for injection, than it "should not be injected" because of health risks or what have you from binders, fillers, and even sometimes active ingredients (Antagonists/Partial-Antagonists) that would otherwise cause unwanted side-effects.

However, it has been found and proven in hard data anywhere you search on the entire internet that Buprenorphine IS 95-100% available to your body compared to when used sublingually where it can range anywhere from 15%-40%. Now I'm no CPA, but if you can put 2 and 2 together, you can see that hard research has been done and proven that at least one route of administration of buprenorphine is FAR superior to that of being taken sublingually as usually, universally directed and prescribed.

With that in mind, there are ampules on the market and they are used in hospitals both in and out patient. Yes that's right, self injection ampules are prescribed to those who qualify even for those with addiction. These ampules go by the brand name of Buprenex.

Now I could probably go on and on about this, but my main point here was that buprenorphine in general has been studied for a while and there is at least one route far superior to sublingual, generally and literally speaking. With that in mind, that opens up the door to more research on other routes of administration and the route that the medicine is most efficient and biovailable to the user for.

One of the many benefits this obviously would and could lead to is less over-medicating/over-prescribing and more people on less of a dose to reach the same amount of relief.

So I am going to end my post here and just post a few links I found that is topic-related and that everyone can find useful. Hopefully no one found this reply to be offensive because I never meant for it to be. So here are the links (I definitely encourage anyone interested in learning more to check them out):

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/20...2,20733lbl.pdf

http://www.acnp.org/G4/GN401000168/CH164.html

http://www.hlthe.com/Analgesics/Buprenorphine.php

http:/ww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query

http://www.thatspoppycock.com/opiates/buprenorphine.htm

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/bupreno...norphine.shtml

And finally, this is from a post on "another board" that I found:

" I Found This Which says that the Nasal Bioavailability For Buprenorphine is 48%

(I didnt read it all so i maybe wrong, see page 4, table 1)

http://paincenter.wustl.edu/c/BasicR...vailability%22 "

Also I found that with research from the poster's own findings, there was a list compiled of biovailability and half life comparisons of drugs with the intraveinous route being 100% and the data for the Buprenorphine I found is as follows:

"bupenorphine 15% oral; 31% sublingual; 90- 100% IM"

Remember with the above quoted percentages, all bioavailabilies are relative to IV bioavailability (100%).

Mike.
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Unread 11-30-2006, 06:16 PM   #19
bam55
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DJone Sub works just fine if used as directed. Why the need to fix it if it is not broke? Weigh the pluses and minuses of your quest for alternative ways to use sub.Do you beleive that the research that has been done on the best way to administer sub is flawed or has a hidden agenda?Maybe kirk knows the absolute truth on the conspiresy to keep us from knowing that there is a better way.I'll bet it has to do with profit,kirk taught me that.
Bill
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Unread 11-30-2006, 06:26 PM   #20
Suture
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Mike,

The reason the injectable is not approved for the treatment of addiction is because by injecting buprenorphine, you increase the speed and intensity of the effects. This raises the potential of addiction, certainly an unwanted consequence. The slow absorption rate of the sublingual medication contributes to its ability to allow people to taper from it more easily than full agonists or from the same injected drug.

Although rate of absorption varies greatly from person to person, an individual’s absorption rate remains fairly constant, this explains the wide dose range. By increasing your absorption you may be able to decrease your dose. Drinking warm liquid prior to taking your meds helps. If you do that though, be sure to do the same thing each day so your absorption is constant.

S-
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Unread 12-01-2006, 01:02 AM   #21
Frozen
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by josie

I just don't think that a support forum for those with the disease of addiction is the best place to try to explore new routes of administering sub...
Actually, I agree.
But I still favor free speech above the practice of shielding people from factually correct, yet 'bad' information, in an effort to protect them from themselves.
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Unread 12-01-2006, 01:07 AM   #22
Frozen
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by DJone
...my main point here was that buprenorphine in general has been studied for a while and there is at least one route far superior to sublingual, generally and literally speaking.
Enhanced absorption rates do not equate to 'superiority'!
I can certainly do without the track marks and collapsed veins which would result from that supposedly superior administration route.
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Unread 12-01-2006, 07:49 AM   #23
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Hi Josie -

I appreciate what you've said about this. I also don't think it's cool to log on to this site in an effort to find new and different ways to take suboxone/subutex. Instructions are clearly written in the patient info page, as well as on the bottle. My doctor tells me to melt it under my tongue. Sure, the flavor is unsavory, but not as unsavory as sticking it "where the sun don't shine".

I mean, look at oxycontin. I was not into those, but I had a doctor who did prescribe me Percocet, and they were nothing like the hydrocodone I was taking (Norcos). And as messed up as I was, I do not recall reading the patient info and the bottle and it telling me to "crush and snort" if desired. I believe it was meant to be swallowed.

I believe that the biggest part of recovery is a complete change in the way you think and the way you live. So, imagine how appalled I was when I walked into my very first NA meeting, the day I was discharged from a 28-day in-patient rehab, and was approached by a man - he was very cordial and welcomed me. He claimed to be a doctor, he was actually wearing a doctor's scrub (shirt), he had listened to my story that night, learning that I had a huge addiction to hydrocodone for chronic pain and, of course, for recreational reasons. He came to me after that meeting and informed me that since he was a licensed doctor (yeah, right, doctor of BS)he would be willing to put me back on hydros, but I had to be completely discreet, I had to go to his home to get them. That whole conversation made me sick to my stomach. And the greatest thing of all - I wasn't craving it. I just wanted him to get the hell away from me. And he did, very quickly when one of the old-timers came to "rescue me".

And this moron claims to have 4 years clean time. I've heard you can get plenty of dope at some of the meetings. And now, we have a couple of people who have come to this site to find different ways of taking sub.

And while that does bother me a great deal, because it does look to me as if these "patients" are still looking for that Big E (big euphohia. I'll be the first to admit that I loved euphoria, and I wanted to feel that way constantly. I took my pills all day long, by mouth of course.

And these days, I take a major part, with my doctor, in my recovery process. He has given me the freedom to "listen to my body", and my thoughts. He is aware that I have spent many hours reading up on bup treatment, and has trust in me that I am on the correct therapeutic dosage - For Me. And after several months of tweaking the dose, I have not had cravings to use my DOC, I have, however, continued to suffer from chronic depression, the kind that does not respond to conventional treatment.
I had some swelling possibly due to the Naloxone, I was taking 24 mgs, so we went down to 16. After a couple months, I told my doctor that I felt I would be just fine at 8mgs. After two months, the depression was back so, it was back to 16mgs. Then, recently, because of continued edema, I asked to try the subutex 16mgs. The doctor said that would be fine. I have been going thru some very trying and emotional times recently, and that I was again battling major depression. So, as of now, I am at 24mgs Subutex daily and I feel better than I have since I began this journey.

Josie, I apologize for posting a novel, that was not my intent. I liked what you said in this thread. The only other thing I'm going to touch on is the petty arguing that frequently happens here: why is it that some people find it necessary to argue about the difference between sub and methadone, or the one that saddens me the most is when some people can't just be happy for the addict who is doing something for himself, something positive. Why must anyone care whether Joe is taking 2mgs sub, and Jane is taking 20mgs sub, or Jack is taking 12mgs.
And why must anyone make it their business to determine just how long a patient stays on sub?

I am one grateful recovering addict, taking a maintenance dose of 24mgs per day. And I plan to continue doing so indefinitely. Sub has given me a blessed opportunity to take a long look at myself, and to learn who I am. I am so happy to know that I never have to live in active addiction again.

And opinions of others roll right off of me. I'm just real happy to have my life back, With Love,

Sheryl




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Unread 12-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #24
Brett
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I guess a good way to sum this up would be, would you consider snorting other medications to get better absorbtion? example Tylenol for headache, advil for joint pain, asprin for toothache, get the picture?? We dont consider taking these medications any other way then intended. Why would we want to take sub any other way? It has a ceiling effect so no buzz is in the picture, A nasty taste is no excuse, if you are really serious about recovery, Dog s*** wouldnt taste too bad!!!

IMO
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Unread 12-01-2006, 02:31 PM   #25
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Brett,
You are right on.....Medication=Take as directed.

Bassdad
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Unread 12-02-2006, 09:02 PM   #26
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I very clearly see the perspective of those (like josie) who take their recovery seriously and view questions about 'alternative injestion' as out of place and/or offensive. There is an 'addictive behavior' feel to questions like this, and on some level i feel it's inappropriate.


HOWEVER, there is also value in sharing honest information so that other human beings don't kill or injure themselves (a la the HARM theory proponents, without which we might not have bupe). I can only speak for myself but even though now i'm a recovering addict I'm not in any position to judge anyone as it relates to addictive behavior. Also, if a post offends or bothers someone, all we need to do is not read it, right?

To answer the original question, absorption of suboxone is really ONLY efficient sublingually. IV administration will cause you to absorb the nalaxone and get sick. Sniffing will not activate the nalaxone but absorption in the nasal passages is minimal and whatever gets into your stomach via drip is wasted (same with subutex). I know my roommate in rehab was there for IV'ing subutex among other things, so it is possible - but obviously dangerous (and i assume a waste of most of the pill) and will not produce a euphoric effect at all. that's all i know
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Unread 08-13-2010, 01:20 AM   #27
Chelseaaa
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Everyone needs to chill a bit,i have so many problems taking subs bcuz my mouth gets too wet and the suboxone just floats around..im trying to figure out how i can take these right.i used to take them fine then all the sudden it just wasnt working out right.i need to find out another way to take them, but still in my mouth,like maybe in cheek or gum but im not sure how it would work out..
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Unread 08-13-2010, 02:59 AM   #28
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Default Naloxone

It is strange they even put Naloxone in Buprenorphine. Although it is almost impossible to OD on, the Naloxone they put in Buprenorphine is kind of strange.

I say this because it has been stated by researchers, that Naloxone will not reverse a Buprenorphine Overdose. However, once you have become dependent on Buprenorphine it will have an unpleasant effect, because you are actually dependent on norbuprenorphine and not buprenorphine.
Persons who inject Buprenorphine and Naloxone for the first time, and are not opiate tolerant, the Naloxone has no effect on them. However, if I injected Suboxone I would feel unpleasant for about 45 minutes, and it would ruin the rush. In Finland, they give out Subutex and they inject it and they have a terrible problem with it there.

The best way I have found to take it is 1/2 an 8mg on the left side of my lower cheek and gum and another 1/2 an 8mg on the right side of my lower cheek and gum, like chew. It takes about 20minutes to dissolve and there is no buildup of saliva like under the tougue. Anywhere in the mouth works. Nicotine gets in the system by the cheek and gum method, so why not Suboxone.

As far as IV or up the ass, or under your arm (lol), is just a waste. The ampoules of Buprenex are 0.3mg and the normal dose in the beginning is a mean of 16mg. 0.3mg times 55 = 16.5mg. So Suboxone is 55 times the strength of Buprenex anyway.

So 40% of 16mg is around 6.5mg. Which is still 20 times the potency of Buprenex.

I really don't like stickin' something up my ass, my ass is for one thing and I need toilet paper for that function. Snorting it is a waste. Swallowing it is a waste. I find the cheek and gum method very slow and very effective. I wish they would do a study on it, because I know I'm getting more Buprenorphine in my system than a 5 minute dissolve under the tougue. People should try it. My doctor even said that is a good way to do it, in fact he is going to recommend it to his other patients.

DJone, what are you trying to accomplish here. No matter how you do it, your not going to get high. Suboxone doesn't get people high, it just stops withdrawals and helps with depression. So go stick it up your ass, and keep it between your butt cheeks. This thread is useless and disturbing, and the only reason I responded, is because I am a Chemist, and you're barking up the wrong tree. If you want to get high, get some Heroin #4 and bang it up. Sounds like your still addicted to the rush.

Just take it as prescribed and your life will change dramatically. Hey, maybe if you dissolve about 20 in an enima bag you might get a rush (lol). Just do it right. That's what we do and have had great success.

Good Karma to you, because you're gonna need it.

PS: Chelseaaa, it works great between the cheek and gum. If people who chew put it under there tougue, most of it would get in there system from swallowing most of it. It works great, slow, no saliva, no spitting, and IMO, more gets in your body.
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Last edited by Salgoud; 08-13-2010 at 03:18 AM..
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Unread 08-13-2010, 08:17 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Chelseaaa View Post
Everyone needs to chill a bit,i have so many problems taking subs bcuz my mouth gets too wet and the suboxone just floats around..im trying to figure out how i can take these right.i used to take them fine then all the sudden it just wasnt working out right.i need to find out another way to take them, but still in my mouth,like maybe in cheek or gum but im not sure how it would work out..
Hi Chelseaaa, welcome. You could try putting it between your cheek and gum - there are those who have had good results from it. Some also 'clamp' their tongue down so that they can keep the medication under there longer.

From the Suboxone website:
http://suboxone.com/patients/suboxone/how_to_take.aspx
Have you tried tilting your head forward to see if that helps at all?

Nancy
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Unread 08-13-2010, 08:18 AM   #30
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Salgoud, not sure if you noticed, but this thread is almost 4 years old, so if DJone doesn't respond, that's probably why.

Nancy
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Unread 08-25-2010, 12:37 PM   #31
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T

Rectal? Well, again there's absorption through the musculature into the blood stream is possible, but I haven't thought of sticking a tablet up that way recently. Or ever for that matter.

Does that help?
That's actually not how plugging is done, you don't just stick the tablet up there. I learned this from another site, a bad one I won't post a link to.. It really blew my mind but somehow very interesting to me none the less. People actually dissolve the pill in water and use a needle with the tip bent off and shoot up it up there. I guess this method of use of lots of drugs is on the rise.
Sadly people using in it this way, see it as okay, as if it's not abuse though.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 12:37 PM   #32
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DJone,

If you are interested in bioavailability, absorption rates, area under the curve and other pharmacokinetics then I would suggest the best source is Goodman and Gilman’s textbook, or better yet go directly to the source - the manufacturer. Try starting with the Here to Help Program.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 01:58 PM   #33
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DJone,

If you are interested in bioavailability, absorption rates, area under the curve and other pharmacokinetics then I would suggest the best source is Goodman and Gilman’s textbook, or better yet go directly to the source - the manufacturer. Try starting with the Here to Help Program.
Whoops just noticed that even thought there have been some recent posts to this thread DJone’s original post was many moons ago. Nevertheless, the best source of info on drugs is the textbook or the manufacturer.
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Unread 08-26-2010, 07:09 PM   #34
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anyone been on it 7rs checked thier teeth lately? i didnt notice anything said about that,,but my teeth were fine before i started sub ,,brushed daily and now al my teeth are screwed up. coincidence?
TT
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Unread 09-21-2010, 09:21 AM   #35
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Unread 09-21-2010, 10:44 AM   #36
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Whether or not this topic is good to be put up for discussion is up to the individual. But this discussion highlights the reason it is so damn hard to get Drs to prescribe the much cheaper generic Subutex.

wayne
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Unread 09-22-2010, 08:54 AM   #37
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Wayne,

Excellant point!!
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Unread 09-22-2010, 11:24 AM   #38
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You know its funny what we think of next... To be honest i started reading this post and i realized it was 4 years old... It just made my day and i got a big chuckle out of it...So if you are reading this just remember ONE DAY AT A TIME you yourself have a choice if you want to use or not....Di.
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Unread 09-30-2010, 04:15 AM   #39
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Usually all drugs have a similar bioavail. Snort-50%, smoke-80%, iv-100%, im-less than iv.(If my jacked memory serves me right)
My ex got into snorting sub & she cut her dependence in half. BUT the lines are HUGE, always had a runny/sniffly nose,& think about all of the binder that gets stuck in your mucus membranes.. Which can in turn grow mold, then next thing u know ur getting that sh-t cut out of ur face. Sexy. It's not the same as coke, I mean u can rub coke between ur fingers & itabsorbs into the skin right away. This sh-t is straight up chemically made with starch, binders, etc. I know in Europe they have a huge problem w/ppl IVing subutex AND suboxone! Well I hate to admit but the 1st day I kept trying & trying to get stabilized & I'd taken up to 30something mg & still felt like total death. And I knew the danger, but was SO desperate to feel better,& sleep for at least 1 hour so I reluctantly IV'd some Tex & honestly felt nothing! Maybe a hair bit better. The only time you'd feel it if u had no tolerance. BUT!!! google shooting sub & all of these wonderful pictures & articles about nasty skin necrosis , removal of limbs, etc. You ARE TOTALLY F@CKED IF U MISS.& this is coming from the girl who's shot everything. It's really dangerous, just look it up.
As far as the butt, my ex tried that too & there's a whole process. Unless u like enemas, have an a$s fetish or sticking objects WAY UP THERE, I'd suggest u go & buy yourself a toy. Trust me. None of this is meant to be a diss, just straight up facts & life experience.
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