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Unread 08-25-2007, 07:12 PM   #801
NancyB
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Hi 42311221man and welcome. The length of treatment varies from individual to individual. It depends on how if they are ready to live life medication free.

Even though bupe has been used for over 10 years in Europe for opioid addiction and over 20 years in the U.S. for pain also, I haven't seen anything on long-term effects.

There are quite a few people here who have tapered off successfully. Most have tapered down to .5 or .25 and then off from there. As Mary said in the post right above yours, she took 2 months to go from 2mg to 0 and she had minimal WDs.

I hope this was somewhat helpful.
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Unread 08-25-2007, 07:15 PM   #802
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Hi 4231221man, Welcome to the community!
1mgs can still be significant when stopped completely. The withdrawal will be less than with full agonists, but even less can still be uncomfortable.

Withdrawal is a symptom of one of two types of brain changes; 1) physical dependence 2) addiction. With physical dependence the brain takes a few days to a couple of weeks to adapt, with addiction it can take months or with some people may never be able to adapt back to pre-addiction status and that person would always need an opioid supplement to feel normal. (this is thought to be are with opioid addiction) Others have increased the taper time off of even 1mg by alternating days taking it or dividing the dose into progressively smaller and smaller amounts or a combination of both. Basically the way to experience the least withdrawal for you is to make taper last as long as possible. Sense you have been maintained at 1mg for so long IMO you have a great chance at transitioning off the medication with minimal and temporary discomfort. Best of luck.
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Unread 08-26-2007, 08:51 PM   #803
Mary
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Hey 4231221man, Nancy and Tim took care of the length of time gig, and I see she mentioned me.
Yup, I was on sub for a year, started at 16 and went to 0 in that time. The last two months were going from 2 to 0. A .5mg reduction every two weeks. That's the time it took me to adjust. If I hadn't and needed more time, I would have stayed longer at each reduction. At the end, I had a little sleep distrubance - took benedryl, some jiggly legs, took clonidine only a couple of days that's all I needed.

The biggest thing is to stay busy, eat right, stay hydrated, take vitamins - especially extra B - and exercise, whether you feel like it or not. That and staying positive makes a big difference.
Tapering beams to you! -Mary
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Unread 08-27-2007, 03:08 AM   #804
bigK
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Hi all, I am brand new to site and have been on sub for almost one year. am at a 3mg daily routine and will be facing reduction in .5 mg drops soon? I don't even know when. Last time I tried it didn't go to well. Too much personal stuff at one time. Anyway I am glad you all are here. Have been reading many posts. Its so nice to hear people speaking my language!!!
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Unread 08-27-2007, 02:38 PM   #805
Mike
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Hi bigK and welcome,
slow decreases and staying busy will help.
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Unread 08-27-2007, 08:58 PM   #806
4231221man
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Thanks guys. I'm taking 2/0.5 1x daily (I split it in half. half in the morning and half at about 3pm). My understanding is that that's the lowest dose one can get. Correct? I read about folks going down by .5 mgs. How can you do that? Part of my problem is that I know the DR personally and Professionally and he doesnt charge me to med monitor. With that comes a "hands off" approach to my tx. My DR thinks the WD SXs are in my head and psychosomatic. Nice huh? I want to be done but WD scares me. Dont want to go backwards. My history isnt pretty. I'm sure I'm not alone there. I dont do WD well. Can anyone tell me about this LDN. I asked the pharmacist at the Apothecary had she new nothing about it. Any layman info on LDN would be great. I read some internet info which helped. I had no idea you guys were out there. The support and feedback is a blessing. Thanks.
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Unread 09-04-2007, 04:08 AM   #807
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thanks naancy,i will try what ya said about getting out of this house.and im gonna print that benzo and sub,thing ya posted for my hubby.we have over 400 miles to drive today to see the sub doctor,im not sure if im gonna tell him im off of them cuz my hubby sure could use the extra.he is gonna try andf get the doctor to up his dose,and if he cant,well then he is gonna let me help him with a very slow taper,so he too will need the help from you guys.for im not an expert on this s***,anyway i gotta go get ready for this long trip,i hate it. L.O.L.FREEDOM.
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Unread 08-17-2008, 11:50 PM   #808
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It's different for everyone. I was not well educated and tapered very quickly(2 months maybe if even) on the advice of a psychiatrist treating my Bipolar. It was not the best way at all so I won't tell. Go slow.

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Unread 09-23-2008, 07:02 PM   #809
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Hi all,
Have not posted in a long time. Didn't even realize the old forum was gone and became a new board.

I read all those horror stories about tapering and looking back, I wish I hadn't. It scared me to death. I am kind of shocked to see people on such high doses of sub when they start. I read someone was taking 150mg of hydro a day and was started on 16mg of sub? YowZa! That's a lot!

My past behavior is embarrassing, but it is what it is. Hopefully my story will help someone though. I was taking about 300mg of hydro per day and then started taking about 200 mg of pure morphine sulphate on top of that! That didn't happen overnight, but that's how bad it got. Norco was like candy to me. My problems started years before with severe chronic pain and the norco just stopped working. I was desperate to stop the pain, and from there, it became a full blown addiction. I had finally had enough when one night I fell sound asleep with a cigarette in my hand IN BED. My pillow had caught on fire and the flames were beginning to singe my hair, when my husband thankfully smelled something burning and came running upstairs. The smoke alarms never went off. I never woke up even though half of my pillow had burned up. He picked me and the pillow up and threw us in the tub and put out the smoldering fire and my singed hair. I was lucky. I should have died from smoke inhalation and without regaining consciousness. I had a guardian angel watching over me that night. The lightbulb finally came on that night and I decided it was time to admit this was a serious problem. I used the patient/doctor matching system from NAABT and got in for an appt but had to wait two weeks. During this time I was told to make it easier on me, try to taper off the opiates as much as I could and I had to stop the benzos completely. Stopping the benzos at home was the most horrible thing I've ever had to endure. Opiate withdrawals are nothing compared to fast tapering off Xanax. I ended up in the ER with heart arrythmia and super high BP on the 2nd week.

My sub doc was good to me though. My only complaint was his requirement for a visit every 3 weeks. Cash only too. Charged 300.00 for the 1st visit and 120.00 for all the others. He started me on 16mg per day. No comfort meds for the benzo withdrawals. Said I had to just get through them. I still felt terrible so on my next visit he upped my dose to 24mg per day. 8mg morning, 8mg afternoon, 8mg night. Changed the suboxone to subutex as well, as the suboxone made me feel like I had an elephant sitting on my chest. It was hard to breathe. The change did help a little and he decided on my next visit my body doesn't like the naloxolone (sp?) so I never did go back to the suboxone. Still after 6.5 weeks I still felt lousy. So I ended up speaking to a person on another board for recovering addicts who told me to humor him and take LESS. This guy was a full blown heroin addict and had successfully tapered off sub without too many issues and had been clean for a year. While I was leery I figured, what the heck. Give it a shot. I can always up the dose. So the next day I cut out the dose at noon, and took 4mg in the AM and 4mg in the PM. From 24mg down to 8mg in one shot! To my surprise I felt much better! My board friend explained to me that sub being a partial agonist is a strange animal. More mg doesn't mean more relief and this drug does have a ceiling unlike full agonists such as morphine, etc...So the more you take, the more sick you can feel. And no, I wasn't feeling withdrawals at all. I just felt better. So I got even more bold. One week later I was down to 4mg per day. One more week and I cut it down to about 2-3 mg per day. I walked into my next appt and told this doc what I had done and he was very happy and said I was certainly motivated and that's a good thing. He did ask how I was dividing this big 8mg pill though. Told him I was getting pretty good at guestimating.

Still had problems sleeping and do admit I begged him to give me back my xanax as the real danger statistically when taking the two together are shooters and I was never a shooter of anything. Still, no go. He said he would give me Seroquel. No thanks. Not for me. At that last visit he wrote for the 2mg tabs and gave me 40 of them until I saw him again. Well since paying him 120.00 every 3 weeks and paying for the sub I really had no intention of going back after that. I tapered myself down with those 40 2mg tabs over the next couple of months. My last doses were literally crumbs. Then off. I had no withdrawals, no cravings and no mental anguish when I decided to follow my friend's advice that less can be more.

Now I am not going to sit here and tell everyone to do what I did of course. It's your body and you decide with your doctor what to do. However, it sure is possible to get on and off sub relatively quickly and with little physical or mental discomfort. I'm proof. My friend who was a raging heroin addict is proof. Many, many others I know have done it as well. Look, taking LESS can not hurt you. Taking more might. I knew I would be safe taking less than prescribed so my only concern was going into severe withdrawals if I cut the dose like that. I think I read too much on these boards and I'm sorry, but sometimes when people expect to be sick and are terrified of withdrawals, they CAN actually make themselves feel sick or sicker then they would have. I've been there myself.

My doctor did tell me that 32mg is the highest dose he would give (ceiling dose) but generally reserves that for hard core heroin addicts doing 12 bags per day. I was taking a mega, mega opiates for years before starting on 16-24mg of sub and the sub, while taking away cravings and while not being in withdrawals really, it sure made me feel kind of sickly. So when I hear that some who had been on say 10-15 norco a day starting on a daily dose of 16mg of sub, I have to wonder if they are prolonging the process for one, and I wonder if they ever considered taking less at least for a couple of days? You may find it to be worth a try and be pleasantly surprised as I was. You can always go back up after all.

While I wish I could sit here and say I am opiate free now, I'd be lying. I know I could be if my body would cooperate, because I can honestly say I have not had "cravings" or feel the need to abuse anymore. The bottom line is that while I was opiate free for months, my body is literally falling apart. I started on prescription norco and xanax for a legitimate pain condition and that condition isn't going away unfortunately. It's only going to get worse. I wish I didn't have to take any pain meds at all to be honest and I tried like hell for months not to. My PCP tried every non opiate/non addictive medication for my disease and they either caused dangerous side effects such as stomach bleeds, blind spots and blurry vision and didn't really help the pain. I ended up bed ridden most of the time. I even suggested that he write the sub for pain, as this has been used for years in Europe for pain and from what I've read they are waiting on FDA approval for a sub pain patch for a certain kind of pain, which happens to be what I suffer from. However, he would not do it because of regulatory problems and pharmacists here don't like filling it without that DEA number with the X. But I had to do something because of the excrutiating pain I was going through while "clean". I'm now seeing a pain management doc, along with 4 other specialists. I'm back on a daily regimen of 40mg hydrocodone and a low dose of xanax, as well as a high dose of an ant-depressent med that's also FDA approved for pain. I've also had some surgical procedures and undergo physical therapy weekly. I have not abused any of my meds since I went through sub treatment I'm proud to say. Actually I have no desire to do so. I get 30 days of meds and sort them all into pill trays for the month. I don't take extra meds, even on bad days. In fact the pain doctor offered me oxycontin last week and I declined and said I'd rather stay on this for as long as possible.

Sorry for the long post here but wanted to dispel some myths:

Sub is not one size fits all. There is no set time on how long to stay on. That varies by patient.

Meetings are not always necessary for everyone. I never attended any meetings or saw any counselors while on sub. I did it on my own with the support of family, friends and these boards.

Sometimes less sub really is more.

Sub DOES work for pain, contrary to popular belief that it rarely works to treat pain.

It doesn't have to be a nightmare to step off sub. Tapering or stepping off completey doesn't guarantee you will have a hard time with it. I didn't, honestly.

People who once abused meds actually can take opiates again without getting back into abusing again. Perhaps many can't, but many can. I've been doing fine and have no desire to abuse my meds ever again.

Most important point is to please not worry about tapering or stepping off. While some may have problems, not everybody does. In fact I've spoken to many people who have come off and less than half had any real problems.

Lastly, talk to your doc and don't worry how long you are or aren't on sub. It's all about you, your body, your mind. Some can step off in 2 months, some can't for a year. Who cares? This isn't a race. Do what works for you.

Good luck everyone!

Last edited by Peglegs; 09-23-2008 at 07:09 PM..
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Unread 09-24-2008, 12:35 AM   #810
Peglegs
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Hello again! I just find this site so informative so I've been doing a lot of reading and followed a link and found the nformation. I think this explains it better than I did in my last post, being the layperson that I am, why some people, such as myself and many of my "board friends" were either not feeling really well when starting the sub or had such a rough time when tapering really slowly or trying to step off. I've highlighted and underlined the parts that explain why I stated that Sub is such a strange animal being a partial agonist and very unlike full agonist (like morphine, heroin) or full antagonist opioids (like stadol). Depending on dose, you can basically see that sub can almost be described as morphing in a way. Dosing amounts certainly change the way it works on our brains anyway. Not too many medications have that ability. Generally if you take more of a med, the effects of the med become stronger, but they don't do a 180 degree flip flop.

Well hopefully the following explains it better than I did and if anyone is having problems on the dose they are on now, such as if they are taking one of the higher dosing levels such as 16mg and up, or they are having a tough time tapering down or stepping off, really lowering the dose may actually help you feel better and attain your goals easier. It did for me. But of course every one is different and as I am far from being an MD, I would never advocate doing this on your own without discussing with your doctors. Just relaying how I handled it, which was the best course for ME. After the last year I must admit I've lost a lot of respect for many MDs and no longer automatically assume all doctors are even worthy of my respect, so while I always listen to their advice, I generally make up my own mind on how to proceed with my healthcare. Right or wrong, that's just me and I do take responsibility for my own body and what advice I follow and what I refuse to follow. Again, that's just MY opinion. Don't want to get in trouble here and am not telling people what to do. Hope this is okay. It may be worth thinking about though if you are having any trouble on the sub and speaking to your doctor about your treatment.

From http://archives.drugabuse.gov/PDF/Pe...s-Neurobio.pdf posted on this site-

Buprenorphine
Buprenorphine’s action on the mu opioid receptors
elicits two different therapeutic responses within
the brain cells, depending on the dose. At low doses
buprenorphine has effects like methadone, but at high
doses it behaves like naltrexone, blocking the receptors
so strongly that it can precipitate withdrawal in
highly dependent patients (that is, those maintained
on more than 40 mg methadone daily).
Buprenorphine is expected to be approved by the
Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of
opioid dependence in 2002. Several clinical trials have
shown that when used in a comprehensive treatment
program with psychotherapy, buprenorphine is as effective
as methadone, except for patients with heroin addiction
so severe they would require a dose of more than
100 mg daily (Kosten et al., 1993; Oliveto et al., 1999;
Schottenfeld et al., 1997). Buprenorphine offers a safety
advantage over methadone and LAAM, since high doses
precipitate withdrawal rather than the suppression of
consciousness and respiration seen in overdoses of
methadone, LAAM, and the addictive opioids.
Buprenorphine can be given three times per week.
Because of its safety and convenient dosing, it may
be useful for treating opioid addiction in primary care
settings, which is especially helpful since most opioid
addicts have significant medical problems (for example,
hepatitis B or C and HIV infection). Buprenorphine
will be available in 4 mg and 8 mg tablets. A combination
tablet with naloxone (Suboxone) has been developed
to negate the reward a user would feel if he or she
were to illegally divert and inject the medication.
The maintenance dose of the combination tablet can
be up to 24 mg and used for every-other-day dosing.
As office-based treatment of heroin addiction
becomes available, the highest possible safety level
(that is, minimal side effects) should be balanced with
treatment effectiveness. The patient taking methadone
must either visit the medical office daily (not feasible
in most cases) or be responsible for taking daily doses
at home, as scheduled. Accordingly, for an opioiddependent
patient who cannot be relied upon to take
the medication as instructed and thus might overdose,
buprenorphine in three doses weekly would be a safer
choice than methadone. The patient’s office visits could
be limited to once or twice per week, with remaining
buprenorphine doses taken at home. Also, buprenorphine
has less overdose potential than methadone,
since it blocks other opioids and even itself as the

dosage increases.



Last edited by Peglegs; 09-24-2008 at 12:49 AM..
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Unread 10-27-2008, 09:51 PM   #811
hannahbanana
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Red face 1 and 112 weeks in

I started Suboxone treatment on Oct. 15th for Ultram dependence. The doctor I'm seeing started me at 1 8/2mg pill 3 times a day (every 5-6 hours is how she told me to take it).

At my second appointment, I told her that I wasn't having any problems going 14 hours between doses. I's take my last dose at or around 8 pm and then go to bed at 10p. I'd sleep until 9 am that next day and when I woke up, I was fine. When I was taking Ultram, if I'd start withdrawing 8 hours after my last dose, so I thought I was doing really well with the Suboxone. She agreed and had me start taking 1 & 1/2 pills 2 times a day (morning and early evening).

That was a BAD idea. 2-3 hours after I took the first new dose, I got sick to my stomach, dizzy, and sweaty. I stuck with it for a few days and then called my doc when I didn't feel better. She agreed to let me try 1 pill twice a day. Today is the first day on that dose and so far so good. I feel fine. I took 1 at 9:30 am and one at 7:30 pm...it's 9:41 pm now and I feel good. If I still feel OK tomorrow, I'll stick with this schedule till I see the doc again on Nov. 7th.

So, in a week and a half, I've gone from 24 mg total to 16 mg. total.

First of all, after reading a bunch of other posts...it seems to me that I was started at a pretty high dose and that I'm tapering faster than normal. Am I right? 24 mg just felt like too much anyway.

Ya'll will have to excuse me if I seem scattered. This stuff winds me up like a TOP!! Hard to stay on task or complete a thought. I'm just here trying to get a feel for how "normal" my schedule is. I'm I going to crash and burn tomorrow because I dropped 8mg so fast?

Don't get me wrong, I can't WAIT to be done with all this....but I want to be sure I'm doing everything right. I'm willing to keep at it for as long as it takes. I got real sick of living my life in 4 hour increments (from one dose to the next). But I don't want to feel that my survival depends on a pill anymore either.

Feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 09:17 AM   #812
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Hey mstwisted1, you can't base your taper on other people's stuff. Everyone is different and their taper gig will be different. Lots of people can go from 24 to 16 pretty easy. I went from 16 to 12 to 8 to 4 without a lot of hassle. I was on it for a year.

One of the things that messed me up was taking it any time after 12 noon. Really messed up my sleep. I always took it all at once in the morning to get it over with. Think about doing that. Sub's got such a long halflife that it doesn't make a difference really taking it more than once a day. Unless you've got a pain thing happening.

If you still feel wound up and scattered, maybe you don't need 16 mg either. Could be good on 12 or 8. See how it goes and maybe keep track of your doses that could help figure this all out.

Positive energy beams! -Mary
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Unread 10-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #813
hannahbanana
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Thanks for the feedback Mary

I can't seem to take more than one 8mg pill at a time without getting sick. I'm trying to figure out how I'd be able to take my whole dose at once in the morning, but just taking that extra half of a pill made me SO sick! If I tried taking the whole 16mg at once, I know I'd barf it up.

I DO have a pain thing going on too...I have 4 herniated discs in my neck. The Sub doesn't seem to be helping too much with that. I'm taking lots of ibuprofen during the day and a muscle relaxer at night that my sub. doctor gave me and that takes the edge off.

Now that I'm down to 16mg total from my original 24mg....I'm not nearly as scattered.

I was worried about dropping that first 8mg so fast, but I feel OK.

It's all still very confusing for me. I want to make sure I'm doing everything right and I don't want to keep messing around with my doses. I know that the goal is to get down to one dose a day....just not sure how I'm going to get there.

I wonder if I'd be ok if I took 10mg at a time instead of the 12mg I tried last week that made me sick?

Just having a hard time wrapping my brain around everything.
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Unread 10-29-2008, 07:26 PM   #814
hannahbanana
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Default here I go again

I switched doctors today. I LOVED the first doctor. I started seeing her on the 15th of this month. She's awesome, but; she's 45min. away from me, I drive a S*** box, gas is too expensive, winter is coming...and the biggest BUT is my insurance. I have private insurance AND state insurance (Masshealth). She only takes my private insurance and my co-pays are $25 for an office visit and $30 for my prescription. I'm on disability. I know I shouldn't complain...I'm OVER insured if anything and so many other people here have nothing.

BUT...with the new doctor, my secondary insurance will pick up the co-pay for my prescription and he's 15 min from me.

It took me 5 months to find the first doctor. I left messages with over a dozen...some didn't take insurance, a lot weren't taking new patients. The new doctor just started taking insurance and had an opening, so I grabbed the chance.

ANYWAY...back on topic...the new doctor wants to have me try to tapper down to 12mg. I started at 24mg on the 15th (1 pill 3x a day). I felt over medicated, so a week later I tried doing 2 doses a day at the same mg (1 &1/2 am...1 & 1/2 pm). THAT made me sick, so Ive been on 16mg (1 in the am and 1 in the pm) since this past Sunday night. The new doctor thinks I'm STILL over medicated because I'm TWEAKED and I can't sleep. He wants me to try 4mg am, 4mg in the afternoon, and 4mg in the early pm.

He also said that he doesn't want me taking the Ambien and Flexeril the first doctor gave me.

I'm a little nervous about tapering again so soon. He DID tell me that if I didn't feel OK, I could take another 4mg, but I promised myself that I would NEVER go up....just down.

I am in SOOO much pain right now. The cold isn't helping and neither is the ibuprofen I've been taking. But I've been here reading and if I understand correctly, a LOWER dose taken 3 times a day is supposed to have more of an effect on pain.

I dunno. I'm freezing, I'm wired, I'm in loads of pain....but I'm not drug sick and there is an end in sight to all this madness so I'll stop complaining.
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Unread 11-23-2008, 07:03 PM   #815
Happy
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Default to mstwisted1

mstwisted1. I have done a pretty slow suboxone taper. I also made that promise not to go up but just down. That was a mistake. You need to listen to your body and stabalize fully at each dose as you go down. If you don't wait to stabalize your brain will not heal. I tried to stop from 2mg and was too sick to make it. I will be going back to 4mg's or 5mgs a day for a while until my brain gets used to that amount. I made the mistake of 1)tapering too fast ,2)Stopping at 2mg even after hearing from people to try to take 1mg a day or even 1mg every other day and then every 2 days.

Also my Dr. thinks that a cetain med I am taking has complicated the process. A medicine called risperdal. It effects dopamine in the brain and he beleives I need to get off of this med temporarily so that my brain can heal. The med sort of blocks excess dopamine wich can help for anxiety (the reason I take it). the problem is that my brain may need that excess dopamine in order to deal with the suboxone taper.

If you try to drop your dose and you feel horrible, I mean cant get to work that day type of horrible, it means you need to either try a smaller decrease or wait a few more weeks.

The truth is that for some people getting off suboxone will be very hard. I made it 7 days off and the 7th day was so bad I almost called 911. That is becasuse I tapered too fast + medicince interference. Those who have had success have told me to go as slow as your body needs to, and to get to the lowest amount your body can handle and then try to take 1 day off and then 2 days off.

For some I have heard they just could not make it below 1mg a day, what that means probably is that you were going too fast before and your brain is playing catch up. Everyones brain is different, just remember not to torture yourself. You should be able to function during the taper, some may need to take some time off work at the end when they totally stop. The best dr's will go with how you feel (up to a certain point).

I have heard stories about only dropping .5mgs every 2-3months taking years to taper. Obviously that is extreme but it worked for a friend of mine. The point is not to set a time limit if you can. I tried that and because of the time limit plus a meicine complication I did not have success.

I will see my doc on tuesday and get myself comfortable again and take these last 4 or five mg's down as slow as my body needs to and get off the med I'm taking.

I am feeling a bit discouraged but coming on here and reading and writing helps to relieve me of a lot of it.

Later
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Unread 11-23-2008, 07:46 PM   #816
Happy
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whats LDN?
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Unread 11-23-2008, 08:05 PM   #817
NancyB
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Hi Happy, LDN is low-dose naltrexone.

This thread has links that tells all about it.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=15267

Also Dennis's experience with it after he tapered off.
Hope it helps.
Nancy
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Unread 01-04-2009, 05:04 PM   #818
BEARDO
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Post New to the forum

I'm new. Found you guys on a random Google search.

I'm a 3-4 year opiate addict, starting w/ Hydro, moving to OC, & occasionally Morphine. I've been obtaining Suboxone from program participant friends for 2 years, & have stopped taking anything but Suboxone.

Suboxone has allowed me to, for the most part, resume a normal life. I feel normal...not stoned, but it's had a terrible effect on my libido, & I'm afraid it's causing depletion of my basal testosterone levels.

My maintenance dose has been 1 to 2mg daily, depending on how I'm feeling. Right after Christmas I decided I wanted off, & began to taper. I'm down to 1/4mg daily, & have set a quit date of 01/08/09.

I'm trying to prepare. I have a script of Xanax, which my Dr has been prescribing for anxiety. I'm not physically dependant on the benzo, but I'm hoping it will help me w/ sleep. I've got some good mineral rich multivitamins, & I've got a week scheduled off work to get this done.

Anyone have any suggestions for me to help me get through this?

If anyone is interested I'll post my progress to let you all know how it's going.

BEARDO
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Unread 01-04-2009, 05:25 PM   #819
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Hi Beardo,
Congratulations!! I wouldn't set a quit date but instead decrease until you start to feel withdrawal then slow down a little and let your body catch up. it will take a little longer but it will be much more comfortable. Your doc might give you clonadine, that helps with some symptoms, but the best thing is to stay real busy, the less time you hav eto think about it the better. I stopped at about .5mgs and just needed some ambien to help me sleep for a few days. Yes please let us know how you do. Good luck!
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Unread 01-07-2009, 12:38 PM   #820
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Hanging in @ 1/4mg. Actually starting to feel okay on it. When I look at what I'm taking each morning, it seems so very insignificant, like a couple of crumbs, & that most recent taper to the 1/4mg has been rough.

Last dose is tomorrow, & I'm jumping off.

Pray for me. I'm hoping this won't be that bad.
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Unread 01-07-2009, 09:36 PM   #821
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Good luck!
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Unread 01-09-2009, 08:32 PM   #822
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Digging in.

Alternating between bursts of nervous energy, & lethargy.

Pulled a brisk walk around the block when I've got the jitters. Moping when I'm not.

I plan on pushing myself into doing cardio. At least the next few days.


Seems to help.

36 hours in.
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Unread 01-09-2009, 08:59 PM   #823
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Beardo

It sounds like your in the right mind set.

I started my taper last week.....i think (breaking 8mgs leaves some guessing), so i think i am taking about 1 mg twice daily, on Sat it will be a week. I may skip tonight just to see how i do....If i start to feel really jittery, my plan is to try and take .5mg or a smaller crumb. I have found drinking lots and lots and lots of water, and i have been taking a magnesium supplement, b12. I feel better on this lower dose then i have felt in a long long time. If i get "stuck" at this dose....so be it, it will be what it will be, i would rather do this with as little pain as possible...no pressure. So when I am 80 in the old folks home taking my crumb of sub dont laugh!!!
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Unread 01-11-2009, 11:26 AM   #824
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So when I am 80 in the old folks home taking my crumb of sub dont laugh!!!
LOL!! I know right. Toward the end of my taper I was looking at my dose like, 'Why bother'....it's nearly nothing.

I was getting 2mg Subs, which I would crush & eye out into 8 equal(as possible) pieces to get my 1/4mg doses. I'd take my dose intranasally, which I know is a 'no no', but I tried taking those tiny doses orally, & they were ineffective that way.

I've passed the 72 hour threshhold. I'm uncomfortable as Hell, iritable, but I've had very little actual pain. Some mild aches in my legs & back, but nothing like previous attempts detoxing....& nowhere near coming off oxyconton. Crazy thing, an old 'friend' called trying to sell some OC 80s. I had to respectfully decline. Even if I crack & relapse, I won't go back to OC, Morphine, or even Hydro. I'll have to use sub.

Trying not to think about that now. Just got out of bed a little while ago, & I feel pretty ok. Went out shopping last night with my wife, & that was tuff, but I made it. I'm holding together.

Thanks guys!!!

75 hours in
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Unread 01-11-2009, 12:12 PM   #825
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Beardo

How are you doing?


n
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Unread 01-12-2009, 01:17 PM   #826
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A little better each day. I'm actually starting to feel human again.

Libido issues....dealt with COMPLETELY.

Had to make a trip out w/ my kids yesterday to Old Navy & Walmart to spend some Christmas gift cards. That was GRUELING, but I got through it.

I woke up this morning feeling totally fine. As the day has worn on, I've noticed some very mild pain in my legs & lower back, but nothing bad...just kinda irritating.

I'm still having to take Xanax at bedtime to get to sleep. I'm going to try to switch off to Valerian & Melatonin. Don't need to become dependent on the Benzos for sleep & end up addicted to those.

Guys, by way of taper, this detox has been TOTALLY tolerable. It hasn't been pleasant by any means, & yes I do still jones, but that's the psychological part of it I guess. I hope that goes away. Nonetheless, careful, structured tapering has really helped with this detox.

Take heart

101 hours in

Last edited by BEARDO; 01-12-2009 at 01:24 PM..
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Unread 01-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #827
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Hi BEARDO, have you ever tried benedryl for sleep also? That works well for some, but I know some who get wired from it. Might be something to think about.

Also, are you taking B Vitamins? They're helpful for energy.

Here's a thread about WD symptom help. Thought I'd post it in case something in there is helpful for you.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=14693

Thanks for the update, keep up the great work!

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Unread 01-13-2009, 11:51 AM   #828
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Slept last night with nothing at all. I've got the Valerian, & Melatonin around the house, but they've gotten pretty old. Bought them last time I tried this(& failed!!! :-()

Didn't get good sleep, but I slept & that is an improvement. I want to get my body rythms back to normal as naturally as possible.

My energy is back today. Feel pretty good. My legs don't feel 'right' but they don't hurt.

Being able to post my experiences here has been very beneficial for me. Not only because of the support & feedback you guys have offered, but I can also look back on my prev posts & easily recall how abstaining has been to my benefit.

This forum is a great one. I've never gone to a group, or sought any professional help for my addiction, but being able to talk openly about the struggle helps alot.

5 days in(I quit recording hours cause I'm tired of doing the math :-))
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Unread 01-13-2009, 01:10 PM   #829
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Hi Folks

I have just tapered to 14mg from 16mg It is not a big drop but I have a lot of time to "play" it out and be as comfortable as possible.
As I have been going through major stress and depression, it is wise to not take on too much right now.

I've read great post's about pain management and that less is more so, I'd like to get down to under 4mg a day.

Yes Peglegs, suboxone works on pain. I dare say it is the best pain medication (for me)

I'll udate my taper as I get there but it will be slo-ooow...

Glen
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Unread 01-13-2009, 03:16 PM   #830
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Beardo- i am soooo grateful for your posts..just took my last"crumbs" dose of suboxone and have been real scared of wd's. I was on methadone for 4 years b4 subs so i know this wont be nearly as bad as that was..but thanks soooo much for the hope..i really needed it..if u have time please keep posting and let us know that it is possible...thanks again..and congrats!
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Unread 01-13-2009, 03:18 PM   #831
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Quote:
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Hi Beardo,
Congratulations!! I wouldn't set a quit date but instead decrease until you start to feel withdrawal then slow down a little and let your body catch up. it will take a little longer but it will be much more comfortable. Your doc might give you clonadine, that helps with some symptoms, but the best thing is to stay real busy, the less time you hav eto think about it the better. I stopped at about .5mgs and just needed some ambien to help me sleep for a few days. Yes please let us know how you do. Good luck!
Sub
Hey!i'm new here and tryin to get as much info as possible. I took my last .5mgs of sub today and i'm curious how long was your taper?and how long were u on the suboxone b4 tapering? thanks for any help u can give..
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Unread 01-13-2009, 03:47 PM   #832
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Hi Faith,
Here's my story http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=19473 I was on for 7 years and tapered very slowly. Whenever I felt bad I would stop tapering and let myself adjust no matter how long it took. Good luck and welcome!
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Unread 01-13-2009, 09:58 PM   #833
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Hi Faith,
Here's my story http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=19473 I was on for 7 years and tapered very slowly. Whenever I felt bad I would stop tapering and let myself adjust no matter how long it took. Good luck and welcome!
Sub
Faith,

Sub's taper sounds like it's alot more sustainable.

In my case, I HAD to put myself on a time table. Wife, kids, DEMANDING job....I had to make a plan of 'attack' & execute it. Not trying to be boastful, because over the course of this detox I never KNEW, & I still don't if I'll become weak & dose...just to feel GOOD again. That's a moment by moment type of thing. When I'm tempted I try to get busy. It's hard because the Subs, & WORSE are readily available to me. I just keep telling myself that I NEVER WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN. So far it's worked, but I haven't even been sober a week yet. I'm still fighting. I feel like I've turned the tide in my favor, but it's not over for me.

Dopesick on Oxycontin I started using 8-12mg of Sub to stabilize. It wasn't too cool for the first week, but after that I was fine. I was lead to believe that Sub was some wonder drug. I was going to ween myself off 'hard' opiates w/ the Sub, & then quit the Sub when I was ready. WRONG!! I got dopesick as Hell, so I went back on. I got stable on 8mg & stayed there for almost a year. Then it got harder for me to find. I knew better than to return to OC, so I opted to lower my dosage. Down to 6mg, then 4mg daily. Each time I tapered it took about a week to get comfortable, but it did happen. I dropped from 4mg, then to 2mg taking 2-3 weeks to allow myself to get used to it...finally I dropped to 1mg. At that point I figured I could jump off. I missed 3 days of work sick & caught alot of flack for it. I started back @ 1mg-2mg just to sleep & function. I stayed there for several months.

The final stages were quite a bit more aggressive. I cut my dose 50% every 4-5 days. I went from 1mg to .5, then .25, then I jumped off.

What really strengthened my resolve was when I began having intimacy issues w/ my wife. It wasn't just effecting me anymore, it'd starting effecting her, because she felt like I wasn't attracted to her, which couldn't be further from the truth. I guess everyone has their own reason for quitting. I knew it was bad for me, but once it started to hurt her...I had to try.

That probably sounded cheesey as Hell, but that is what started me on this detox. I started looking for whatever info & help I could find online, & one of the first things I located was this forum. THANK GOD!!!

I hope this information benefits you. Do the best you can. Do what you can handle. Do what you feel like you HAVE to do. If it's a SLOW taper, then creep along at your own pace.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 09:42 AM   #834
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Hey beardo- how r u feelin? the anxiety of this whole thing is almost gettin the best of me..but i'm hangin in there..curious how ur doin..
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Unread 01-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #835
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Hey beardo- how r u feelin? the anxiety of this whole thing is almost gettin the best of me..but i'm hangin in there..curious how ur doin..
1 week sober today. I feel pretty good. Not GREAT, but okay.

I had the benefit of having Xanax from the doctor. I'm being treated for Generalized Anxiety Disorder, which I've been getting the benzos for years. I don't take them much, cause they make me tired...just when I'm very anxious or having a panic attack.

You've got to be careful with those because they are also addictive, & you don't want to end up subsituting one addiction for another. When I took Valerian before it helped. The smell NASTY, but they did help me somewhat.

It's a waiting game during detox. The longer you abstaine the better you'll feel. I'm still jonesing, but at least I'm not sick or hurting. You'll get there to, you just gotta dig in & hang on.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 03:27 PM   #836
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1 week sober today. I feel pretty good. Not GREAT, but okay.

I had the benefit of having Xanax from the doctor. I'm being treated for Generalized Anxiety Disorder, which I've been getting the benzos for years. I don't take them much, cause they make me tired...just when I'm very anxious or having a panic attack.

You've got to be careful with those because they are also addictive, & you don't want to end up subsituting one addiction for another. When I took Valerian before it helped. The smell NASTY, but they did help me somewhat.

It's a waiting game during detox. The longer you abstaine the better you'll feel. I'm still jonesing, but at least I'm not sick or hurting. You'll get there to, you just gotta dig in & hang on.
Thanks for the reply beardo..i guess the worst has been the chills and stomach issues..but beyond that PHYSICALLY i am ok..mentally not so much. Had a real bad last 2 days mentally.Mood swings like crazy. Poor boyfriend is like bending over backwards tryin 2 make me feel better..Had an epiphany of sorts today. This obsessing i've been doing about these little pills is exactly the same as the obsession for dope i used to have..when will i get more..maybe i can take a little extra..blah blah. I had been saving maybe 1/2 or 1 mg(hard to tell when its crumbs) "just in case". Couldn't bring myself to throw it away, but knew that i needed to get rid of it, otherwise i was gonna make myself nuts. So dumped the last of the crumbs under my tongue, and instanly felt better..like i said, i'm mental. So i feel better now knowing their all gone..and now i can start getting better. Got some clonodine yesterday and worst comes to worst, i can take a couple of those and go 2 sleep. Meetings and prayer worked great for me in the past, and for some reason, i've stopped both things almost completely..my addiction is cunning, baffling, and powerful as hell. So just making the descision to go back to doing what's kept me clean the past year has eased alot of my anxiety..its just tough to imagine life without a pill, needle or pipe to start my day..its been so long you know? I have anxiety disorder too, but i cant mess w benzos..1 is too many and 1000 is never enough for me. But jeeze good for you..ur really doin it! Its only gonna get better..thanks god for this site. I'll check in often to update how i do with no suboxone at all. day 1 here i come!
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Unread 01-16-2009, 09:23 AM   #837
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Hey Faith,

I've been dragging my behind out of bed & going for my 'dope' first thing for years as well. Old habits...ya know. I still wake up feeling like I should be doing it.

Sub & worse are always w/i my reach. I understand that frustration. I just kept telling myself I NEVER want to detox again. Even though this has been my easiest detox attempt yet because of the taper, it was still rotten as Hell, & I don't want to put myself through it not one more time.

I'm understanding why people substitute one substance for another. I didn't feel high....or even altered well into my opiate addiction. I felt I was taking them to feel normal. Now a week off I feel much differently. The detox is over, I feel, but there is awkwardness to functioning CLEAN for me. So many things feel foreign. It leaves a whole in your psyche, I think. A gap between what you're used to & what you're left with. I guess I've just got to hold out & get used to sobriety. I'd hate to think I'll spend the rest of my life w/ this jones.

One thing is for sure. IT BEATS THE HELL OUT OF BEING DOPESICK!!!
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Unread 01-16-2009, 02:08 PM   #838
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i'm really strugglin 2day. Thinkin i'm not ready for this..but what better time than the present right? I just been addicted to somethin..anythin..for so long, dont know if i'm cut out for "clean". Soooooo much anxiety..physically ok..stomach upset this mornin, but took some immodium and it seems to be workin..god i hope this gets better.
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Unread 01-23-2009, 03:38 PM   #839
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okay so I didn't make it with the jump. I filled my last script hopefully and should be able to stay at .5-1mg a day for a little bit. My plan is to try and start going every other day after a couple weeks, then maybe every 2 days, and then stop. Has anyone else done it this way? I think i just went too fast. The last 2mg are the most important, and noticeable part, i've heard, and I did the last 2mg in about 2 1/5 weeks. Which clearly was too fast for me. so much inspiration on this site..u guys rock!
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Unread 01-23-2009, 03:39 PM   #840
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Beardo- how r u? Still going buddy? Im thinkin about u, hoping ur ok..
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Unread 01-23-2009, 10:16 PM   #841
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Beardo- how r u? Still going buddy? Im thinkin about u, hoping ur ok..
Sorry for being not being around. Back to work, so I have little time to post.

I'm through 2 weeks. Still don't feel 'normal', but I'm not complaining. Feeling better every day.

You OK?
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Unread 01-24-2009, 09:37 AM   #842
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ya i'm ok. couldnt stay off the subs so i got back on like .5-1mg a day. i just wasnt ready i guess. This time im a go slower and stop thinkin i have to hurry up and get off u know? U dont know how much reading your posts has helped though..i'm really rootin 4 u..if u have time try to check in once in a while and let me know how ur doing..it's so good to know that this is possible to do..ur an inspiration..
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Unread 01-25-2009, 04:00 AM   #843
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I have been on a taper for the last few weeks from 8 down to 2mgs , i thought i had it done and no problem but the last few days i have realized i am not doing all that well , i am at a loss for what i should do now? I think i should just gut it out and that is what i have been doing but deep down i hear that little voice telling me to ramp it back up... My legs and lower back are not feeling to good these last few days and it is really begining to bother me. I wonder how much longer these pains will last? This is the #1 reason i dont want to go back up any higher but i really dont want to suffer like this for weeks on end. It is this fight in my mind that makes me so damn crapped out all the time I will just keep up where i am now and see how i feel in a few days...i really just want to run from my own skin right this moment!
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Unread 01-26-2009, 11:18 AM   #844
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cjsaddiction-when i first went down to 2mgs from 8-i felt good for the first 3 days. Then i felt like crap for 2 or 3 days, absolutely liveable though, not horrible, but it got better. It didnt last very long. Your body will adjust if you give it a little time..but every1's different. If you dont feel better in a couple days and its really bothering you, you do what you need to do to stay clean..
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Unread 01-30-2009, 01:07 PM   #845
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Quote:
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I have been on a taper for the last few weeks from 8 down to 2mgs , i thought i had it done and no problem but the last few days i have realized i am not doing all that well , i am at a loss for what i should do now? I think i should just gut it out and that is what i have been doing but deep down i hear that little voice telling me to ramp it back up... My legs and lower back are not feeling to good these last few days and it is really begining to bother me. I wonder how much longer these pains will last? This is the #1 reason i dont want to go back up any higher but i really dont want to suffer like this for weeks on end. It is this fight in my mind that makes me so damn crapped out all the time I will just keep up where i am now and see how i feel in a few days...i really just want to run from my own skin right this moment!
weaning way too fast imo... slow down. If you dont get better slice off a tiny bit and take it. my first attept trying to get off too fast was a killer...second time I slowed down and the jump was not bad.... three weeks later then it got bad. Now over 90 and still not right but have to keep plugging on
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Unread 01-31-2009, 12:17 PM   #846
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Hey guys,

Just checking in to see how everyone is doing.

I'm through 3 weeks. I SOOO want to be over this, but I know I'm not. Anyone know anything about Post Accute Withdrawal?

I'm fighting w/ some strange emotional issues. My body feels foreign at times. I'm finding it's causing some strain in my relationships w/ family & friends. I'm in my head alot. It's difficult to explain.

I want to get better. I feel like I've come too far to go back to opiates. I feel like my whole struggle to stay sober would be worthless if I go back.

Determination is my lifeline. Praying helps me keep my head. Is this a waiting game I'm playing, or is this something I just have to get used to?

BEARDO
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Unread 04-22-2009, 10:20 PM   #847
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I just wanted to say how inspiring it has been to read everyone's story! I am tapering right now myself, a slow 2 month taper down from 2mg. I started taking Subutex (8mg/day) on April 1.

So far, so good! If anyone would like advice, feel free to ask away. I am happy to help others, it actually helps myself too!
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Unread 05-16-2009, 07:03 PM   #848
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Hi,
I posted here when I went on sub about 9 months ago.
Now, I've realized after going to many meetings in the last 6 months, that I want to be off the sub, it's just making me too wonky. I have had side effect that only 10% of people have, such as dysphoria, hypersomnia, and weight gain (25lbs!). I jumped from 5mgs to 2mg with a doctor's blessing, and today I went to 2 1/2, because that was too big of a jump. I would prefer a fast taper, but I'm going to listen to my body.
I don't ever want to take an opiate again. I take bup for chronic pain, but imo it hasn't worked that well in the long-term. I don't want to take opiates for chronic pain, I think I will just deal with it, or take some non-narcotic medications.

So, anyhow. This is the start, and I am doing my best to keep my resolve. Posting helps, and so does reading replies.
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Unread 06-05-2009, 03:47 PM   #849
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I dont know how old this post is. my computer says last post was in 2007 if i'm reading this right. Anyway, I am at 4mg a day. the only way i got this far was by trying to quit. I was on 12 mg a day and could not to save my life go any lower. I decided finally to stop the medication all together and lasted a few days. i went through the worst withdrawal ever. I think heroin withdrawal wasn't as bad. But i am not slamming suboxone. It saved me from morphine addiction. And this whole ordeal of making the morphine every day. Thirty minute deal just to make a batch to use. My God I don't miss that. I work non stop and i'm on call once a month so i need the energy. I digress... Anyway after going through the suboxone withdrawal I started back on 4mg a day...i Just couldn't take it anymore. And here i sit at 4mg, will i ever be off this stuff. I have prayed day and night for God to heal me for years. I thank God for getting me this far. My doctor wants me off this soon and thinks i can jump at 2mg. I know that ain't possible. Im currently looking for a new doctor.

I dont know if anyone is reading, but if you are thanks for listening. Keep me in your prayers. Sorry if i dont post often. I will try though. I just signed up for this today.
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Unread 06-05-2009, 06:13 PM   #850
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Hi Night,

The best advice I can give you is this, if your doctor is setting the limits on your daily dose amount and how long you can be on Suboxone, then do yourself a favor and begin searching for a new doctor. I am very serious about this advice.

Recovery is very different for each of us. Suboxone can be of great benefit for either short detox only, longer term recovery or for life, if need be. How long we take Suboxone depends on our personal situations (history, other issues and so on) and also very much on how our overall recovery goes in general.

Sub is nothing more than one tool of many and it is not a cure, nor is taking Sub recovery in general. Please do yourself a favor, educate yourself on Sub and addiction/recovery, plan for the long term success and find a doctor who is on the same page with these things!

I'm glad you found this site, for opiate addiction there is no better site out there!

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