Addiction Survivors

Closed Thread
Unread 04-22-2006, 05:24 PM   #1
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default Buprenorphine Class Action Lawsuit

I have been reading that many people are trying to file a MAJOR lawsuit against Reckitt Benckiser Pharm (makers of Bup). It mentioned that when Bup was very first put on the market, the makers(RB) of the "medication" said patients would have "NO WITHDRAWL". I personally have been trying to "rid myself" of this medication for 2 months now, unfortunatley i cannot break the 2mg border. I have gone to 1mg and waited a day etc....The W/D's from Bup is JUST AS BAD IF NOT WORSE than OxyContin. I say this from experience it has been a terrible terrible experience ( sweats, cold, hot spells, aches and pains,lethargy, no appitite, and the worse... The runs[V] )
I was told of the W/D when i started Bup, so i knew what i was getting into. A lawsuit could/would be a MAJOR blow to the recovery of many Opiate Dependant individuals.... I guess the people filing this FILTH did not realize( Or told by the Doc ) how powerful this drug is and that they were under the impression that it would be "painless"(no w/d) and easy to stop.
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 05:39 PM   #2
Caroline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 812
Default

When I went through the training over three years ago, I was never under the misconception that there would be NO withdrawal, but that it would be milder, and I have always presented that to my patients. Many patients have said that discontinuing bupe was less of a problem than methadone. But, I never heard anywhere that there would be NO withdrawal. Where did that come from? Who said it?

Caroline
Caroline is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 05:43 PM   #3
SomeDayBFree
Senior Member
 
Posts: 239
Default

Caroline ~

It all came from the Heroin-Detox board

SomeDayBFree
SomeDayBFree is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 06:17 PM   #4
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

That was not where i read it ( i am trying to find it and i will send the link ) but i just looked at the Heroin Board and it sounds as though someone is looking to "round up" people to persue it. I really think they are kicking a dead horse and they are all full of Sh**!!!!!
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 07:59 PM   #5
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

It's a total fiction. Class actions aren't as easy as many think. I checked out this rumor through a clearinghouse for class action attorneys. Opponents of sub therapy have tried to spread this rumor for a long time. Sick.

Robert
leeglegle is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 08:10 PM   #6
Suture
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,628
Default

RB has never said in any literature or anywhere else that there would be no withdrawal. The only people who are under this illusion are people who don't educate themselves about their treatment. Even with a tiny bit of research one finds that bupe is a partial agonist opioid, and the withdrawal syndrome is milder than that of full agonists. It's right on the label. You never hear of anyone curled up in the fetal position puking on themselves and crying, like you hear with a real opioid detox. They complain of a headache and being tired or can't sleeping...big difference. How quickly some forget what a real detox is.
S-
Suture is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 08:21 PM   #7
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,317
Default

Hey, I also read it over on heroin-detox also SomeDayBFree. It seems to be one topic that recycles itself when someone jumps off at like 4mg and doesn't understand why they have WDs. OK, maybe I exaggerated, but you know what I mean. But there were some people who spoke up and said it could be risky for others. So that was good.

In any event Neil, have you tried the 1/1 split like SomeDayBFree suggested in the Ros and Mary taper topic? It's working pretty darn well for me. You might want to take a read through some of that and let me know in there if you have any questions. I won't hijack this thread with any more about it. But it's in that one. Let me know!! Beams to you. -Mary
Mary is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:04 PM   #8
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:31 PM   #9
easc
Senior Member
 
Posts: 484
Default

I tapered off of Sub last year unsuccessfully.I attribute that directly to a rapid/incompetent taper schedule set up by my doctor at that time.I had severe prolonged withdrawal for about 3 months and was still in pretty bad shape for another 3 after that.I was eventually feeling much better after about 7 months,but still had severe cravings which led to my relapse this year.I am giving it another shot with proper supervision and attitude this time around.
I have never at any time been led to believe that there are no withdrawals.I do feel however that the amount of info out there with regards to how severe the withrawals actually are is in short supply.
Almostthere:If the intention of your approach is to gather more accurate data as to the true severity of Buprenorphine withdrawal then I commend you.That is information we all seek.ROS and MARY are providing an extremely valuable service by documenting their experience!
However,a class action lawsuit??On what grounds?Bupernorphine is everything RB states it is:a means to detox from other full agonist opioids with less severe side side effects.Also a way to transition from more dangerous,illegal and unpredictable drugs to that which is legal and can be safely administered and titrated in a consistent dose.
easc is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:34 PM   #10
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

I am glad to see you can amd introduced yourself. I have not Detoxed off of Suboxone and i have been on it since early 03'... I was told That W/D were not going to easy and it is NOT easy, i have been on 2mg and then to 1mg and can't get from there without experiencing lousy W/D's..... My question is, Why a lawsiut?? If you simply want to make sure future candidates for suboxone are told the truth about it's addictive nature and the fact that they may end up losing months if not years to a drug that is marketed as a short-term detox is a lawsuit nessasary???? What other avenue's have you explored??? I am not critisizing just concerned...
Neil
Boston
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:35 PM   #11
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Who are you? Your real name, please. Mine is attached to my posting information as are the names of many others here.

What organizations?

If you don't honestly answer those questions, I see no need to waste time with your bogus "controversy."

Robert
leeglegle is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:46 PM   #12
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:54 PM   #13
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-22-2006, 09:58 PM   #14
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,317
Default

Hi Almostthere, I'm the Mary of the Ros and Mary, who easc referred to. I personally think that a lawsuit is ridiculous in the fact that some over at heroin-detox already voiced. First of all, to categorically call it mis-information would be, in my opinion, the first mistake. I think one of the big problems, if we can call it that, is that there are a lot more people who have successfully tapered off of bupe than we'll ever know. Most of these people have no reasons to come to forums such as this or heroin-detox. They've moved on. People who are still looking for answers, are the ones who are at these forums. I think if instead of an attack, because the number of successful tapers is an unknown number, it could be presented in a more business-like manner. Know what I mean? Then it presents an effort to offer constructive advice, rather than an outright attack without knowing all the numbers. This is just my first thought. What do you think? -Mary
Mary is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:04 AM   #15
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Almostthere

leegle I am guessing by your name that you are somehow involved in the legal profession. If you were me would you post your information at this point? When the time is right I will be quite vocal and will deal with the publicity that involves. At this point I prefer to protect my anonymity and the names of the groups I am working with. I am sure you are familiar with the term "discovery phase" and the restrictions that go with that.


Almostthere, tell me who you are and what "organizations" you say are involved. There is no reason to withhold that "information" if you are for real. The existence of pretrial discovery is public information, even if the content is not.

Read the front page of today's Business Section of The New York Times and you will see a long article about all pending or contemplated class action suits against pharmaceutical companies, specifically those involving any psychoactive medications. No references to Reckitt or sub.

Yeah, if I wanted credibility and support, I absolutely would post my "information" here. Think of all the new plaintiffs you could attract from this site. You're a fool if you don't take advantage of this opportunity to garner support for your "class action" lawsuit.

Put up or shut up. If you don't, you have no "class", personally or legally.

Robert
leeglegle is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:17 AM   #16
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:19 AM   #17
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

Listen folks, I only brought this up to the forum because it would have eventually made it here and i think it is very important that all members of NAABT are made aware of any information regarding RB and Buprenorphine fact or fiction.
Neil
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:20 AM   #18
leeglegle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Almostthere

I'll put up.....Robert....when the time is right. You love to have "control" of things don't you Robert. Well this one is beyond your control and Robert the case hasn't been filed yet.
Well, this is it for me. You're obviously full of crap. There's no better time or place than now and here.

Robert
leeglegle is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 01:08 AM   #19
scooter
Junior Member
 
Posts: 6
Default

Robert, go screw yourself. Why do you need all that info from him/her? Who cares. You're a clown!
scooter is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 01:32 AM   #20
Caroline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 812
Default

Almostthere, I am a physician and I have helped many people apply to their insurance companies, to pharmacy assistance through the state, etc, and none of these entities has denied maintenance treatment with bupe. Why do you think this is? You are simply VERY misinformed. If you persist in filing a suit, the big guns WILL come out, and believe me, there will be a counter suit...you can depend on that! And I hope you'll be ready. You file first.

By the way, over the three years time span that I have been treating patients with bupe, I have had many patients who have successfully tapered off Suboxone. If there are relapses, that is the nature of this disease, which is chronic and relapsing. Everyone who has an addiction to opioids knows that there is more to recovery than just being abstinent, and that abstinence may not be achieved by some people even with excellent support and superb counseling. But, if they require methadone or suboxone maintenance to live a normal life, then for them the goal of treatment is a success.
Caroline
Caroline is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:08 AM   #21
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:22 AM   #22
Brett
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,768
Default

Sounds like facts, not threats, so far as I can see.
Brett is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:28 AM   #23
dodo
Senior Member
 
Posts: 781
Default

Robert,
There have been a few times when you've decided you didn't want to share with us, for reasons that are still unclear to me. Why put someone down who isn't comfortable in doing so also? How easily we forget things. I am not voicing an opinion on this thread. I just read it and said what I wanted to say.
Doris
dodo is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 04:29 AM   #24
easc
Senior Member
 
Posts: 484
Default

Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Almostthere

easc I respect your opinion but have you ever looked at the taper schedules proposed by RB? Have you met anyone in person or on these forums that has actually successfully tapered at those schedules? Those are the taper schedules that were probably used by your doctor the first time around. It is not represented as an opiate replacement therapy as you just stated. Once again, if they change their literature to represent what it really is that's what I hope to accomplish. How would you suggest we go about changing the misinformation put out by pharmaceutical companies? I am open to suggestions.
Almostthere:I misunderstood your initial point.In fact I interpreted it backwards.I see your point now having reread your response to me.My apologies.I did review the product information from the Suboxone/Subutex website carefully.I did not however find anything misleading.I am very interested in reviewing the literature that states there is a "mild"withdrawal.Also can you please provide a source for the literature that markets Sub as a means to transistion completely off of other opiates?I am sincere in my requests as I find this information highly compelling.In my quest to understand this medication I have found it extremely useful when folks are able to back up and substantiate their findings with as much factual information as possible.

Thank you.
Respectfully
EASC
easc is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 05:09 AM   #25
Frozen
Senior Member
 
Posts: 674
Default

If you have an endogenous opioid deficiency, you'll have a very difficult time trying to quit sub. Not because the sub itself is hard to detox from, but because the medication is properly compensating for your 'opiate deficiency', and you shouldn't be trying to stop taking your medication in the first place! If you need opioid medication to feel normal , living 'drug free' means living in misery.

http://www.prohibitionkills.blogspot.com

Why can't Reckitt just say that in the first place? Because sub was developed under orphan drug status, thus prohibiting the manufacturer from even mentioning the use of this medication for anything except opiate detox until 2009.

Those parasites who look to bite the hand that heals them, by exploiting the nanny-state's broken legal system to forcibly take money from those who have rightfully earned it... those who stifle scientific progress and drive up prices for the rest of us by entangling good, productive and innovative men in their frivolous lawsuits... will inevitably suffer the same bad karma as every other theif or conman who can never seem to find personal happiness, despite all the money they've successfully extracted from their victims.

Two words: Personal Responsibility. Quit whining about the big bad corporations, get up off your lazy ass and go do something productive with your life for a change.
Frozen is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 10:39 AM   #26
scooter
Junior Member
 
Posts: 6
Default

Retarden Metal,

Now that I have gotten past the worst 2 years of my life stuck on sub after using hydro for 10 months from an injury I am enjoying life and being productive. The only lazy ass I had was on Sub. I am 76 days off sub. Maybe you should get off your lazy ass and be productive by not letting other people get all jacked up by this crap. After being told by my doctor that sub for the rest of my life is what he thought was best I knew he was wrong that why I wa PERSONALY RESPONSIBLE for my next move. I made the decision to leave my job, my wife and 2 kids and go away to detox from sub and it worked. I'm not lazy so go screw yourself too. I'm much better now!
scooter is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 10:39 AM   #27
scooter
Junior Member
 
Posts: 6
Default

Retarden Metal,

Now that I have gotten past the worst 2 years of my life stuck on sub after using hydro for 10 months from an injury I am enjoying life and being productive. The only lazy ass I had was on Sub. I am 76 days off sub. Maybe you should get off your lazy ass and be productive by not letting other people get all jacked up by this crap. After being told by my doctor that sub for the rest of my life is what he thought was best I knew he was wrong that why I wa PERSONALY RESPONSIBLE for my next move. I made the decision to leave my job, my wife and 2 kids and go away to detox from sub and it worked. I'm not lazy so go screw yourself too. I'm much better now!
scooter is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 10:55 AM   #28
Caroline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 812
Default

Scooter, congratulations on your recovery...and the way you have accomplished it. It is not the same for everybody, however, so you should not judge. What has worked for you may not be the answer for another person. That is one of my large concerns...people tend to think only in terms of themselves and what worked for them. Everyone's experiences are important, but your experience may not be applicable to another person's situation. Again...congratulations for what worked for you. All the best,
Caroline
Caroline is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 11:06 AM   #29
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,317
Default

scooter, I'm not being malicious, really. But it seems to me that your doctor really didn't know what the hell he was doing. Your situation, especially with your apparent motivation screamed of a short-term detox, not the long-dragged out one he had you on. The onus of the fault there lies with the physician, not the manufacturer. In my opinion, 10 months on hydros and being told that sub for life might be the answer was crazy.

I'm glad that you took personal responsibility, but I really don't think that a class-action suit against the manufacturers is going to get anywhere, because there are so many unknowns as I put in my other post about all the successful tapers that we don't know about. Everyone should read as much as they can about sub, and make an an informed decision. Hell, before I started sub (I was doing H for most of 20 years), I looked up everything I could. I even got the TIP40 and read it. I wanted to be informed because I had tried everything else. Methadone, Naltrexone, cold turkey too many times, rehabs, blah blah blah. But, especially with something relatively new - well in the US - I wanted to know what I was getting into. If I had been fluent in French, there would have been some French studies, well, I think that's what they were... but c'est la vie...

Anyways, I'm very glad you're doing much better. I'm just sorry that you got caught up in something that was, in my opinion, not a good call by your doctor. I wish you had my doctor. It probably would have been a better experience. Sending beams of continued good health to you scooter! -Mary
Mary is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 11:32 AM   #30
Mike
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,438
Default

I was on sub for 3 years, the 3rd year was a long detox (over 1 year ago). I had few problems, but I was prepared and had been through a real withdrawal before. I felt the company was not at all misleading. The misleading people are the ones that don't read the drug label and blame the company for things they should take responsibility for. For me I was unable to quit until I found sub. Here's what the company said then and still says:

Dependence:
Buprenorphine is a partial agonist at the mu-opiate receptor and chronic administration produces dependence of the opioid type, characterized by withdrawal upon abrupt discontinuation or rapid taper. The withdrawal syndrome is milder than seen with full agonists, and may be delayed in onset.
Mike is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 11:49 AM   #31
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

I guess what this whole thing comes down to is "WITHDRAWAL" and RB has made it quite clear that W/D is eminent although the "severity" may be milder, IT IS ALL UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL and how their body speaks to them..... Some people can't function on mild (or any) W/D's and some can.
When i first read about this trash, i thought it had already been filed.... sorry bout tat

Mary--- What is TIP40? Beam me up scotty
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:07 PM   #32
Mike
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,438
Default

This is why studies are so valuable and should carry the most weight when deciding how something will affect you. The studies combine hundreds of individual experiences and reports what the majority experiences. If 5 out of 100 had what they considered bad withdrawal and all five come to this site then it would appear that the study was wrong. The other 95 could be out enjoying life and have no reason to seek out answers to problems they don't have. I've had this problem trying to get other friends of mine with similar good experiences to come on this site but they say they have put drugs and anything to do with drugs behind them and don't want to relive any of it. Individual experiences are valuable but hundreds of experiences from a controlled group are much better.

badhabits, the tip40 is guide to medical people about the use of buprenorphine for opioid dependence. It's on the links page of this site. It's a 200 pag book, so if you hav dial-up beware. Here's a direct link: http://www.naabt.org/links/TIP_40_PDF.pdf
Mike is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:10 PM   #33
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,317
Default

Hey Neil, The TIP40 is the "Clinical Guidelines for the Use of Bupeprenorphine in the Treatment of Opioid Addiction". It's put out by SAMHSA. I got it from the samhsa.gov site. I can't remember where exactly, it was sooo long ago, but I've seen Tim and Nancy refer to it here as a download on the literature page. I copied that link for you, it might be easier than trying to find it on the gov't site... http://www.naabt.org/education/literature.cfm

It's not exactly thriller reading, but I did learn a lot from it. And it's helped me with some stuff, and others here.
Happy reading beams to you. LOL! -Mary
Mary is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:15 PM   #34
Mary
Senior Member
 
Mary's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,317
Default

Alright, it wasn't as bad as I thought... here's the link if you want your very own copy.
http://www.kap.samhsa.gov/general/order.htm
-Mary
Mary is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:19 PM   #35
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

I really don't want to prolong this thread but, this guy Almostthere wrote: "have you ever looked at the taper schedules proposed by RB? Have you met anyone in person or on these forums that has actually successfully tapered at those schedules? Those are the taper schedules that were probably used by your doctor the first time around"

Does anyone have these original Taper schedules? Have they changed or been "Revised". ( Maybe the TIP40?? )
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 12:49 PM   #36
The Clinic
Member
 
Posts: 32
Default

badhabits,
You are correct, that was the preliminary taper rates. Those rate certainly make the withdrawal syndrome milder but not as mild as it can be. We (and others around the country) have found a slower taper is more easily tolerated. 2mgs/month seems to be good once the patient is below 12mgs/day, which can be reached with a more aggressive taper. We also customize our taper schedule to prevent patient anxiety. If at any time the patient feels they want to stop the taper for a while we let them. Most don't stop for long. We have tapered many patients and only about 5 out of 300 have returned due to relapse. Most reported trouble sleeping the first week, minor aches and pains, some craving, but basically manageable symptoms, that few even missed work over. It is our experience that the level of withdrawal one experiences is due to the level of dependence upon commencing buprenorphine treatment, NOT the dose of bupe or the duration of treatment.
TXC
The Clinic is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 01:05 PM   #37
Sub-Zero
Senior Member
 
Sub-Zero's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,563
Default

The dosing guide has some suggested schedules but it also says this:

Dose reduction/medical withdrawal following maintenance
Significant withdrawal symptoms are unusual during gradual SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX sublingual tablets dose taper.
[*] The rate of dose reduction should be determined in collaboration with the patient. [*] Prepare the patient for possible feelings of less energy, lower appetite, irritability, difficulty sleeping, etc. It is the duty of the physician to prepare patients for these effects in order to maximize their chance of a successful treatment outcome. However, these effects are transitory and should last only a few days.
[*] Realistic goals for reduction should be established.
[*] Generally, the more gradual the reduction, the better the outcome.
[*] Your patients should expect to experience some withdrawal discomfort once they reach low doses or stop taking SUBOXONE or SUBUTEX completely.
[*] Slow down or stop the dose reductions if:
Your patient starts to reuse opioids
Your patient's physical, psychological, or social well-being begins to deteriorate
Sub-Zero is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 01:17 PM   #38
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

When i first started Bup in April of 03' I was on 24mg and dropped to 12mg within 10 days or so. I am currently on 2mgs and have fluctuated between 1mg and 1.5mgs then back, wait a day bla,bla,bla ( i am not going to get into what i have done because i have tried everything and this has been the case for 18 months now ) What is your experience getting people off of a "low dose"????? (below 2mgs)
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 01:46 PM   #39
The Clinic
Member
 
Posts: 32
Default

First we make sure they are ready and are motivated to taper. Below 2mgs defiantly needs the most attention. Counseling and meetings help some. Most slow down at this point, but still head toward lowering. As most transition below 2mgs., they can make it more gradual, example, 2mgs/ one day 1mg the next day. There will be some minor withdrawal symptoms for a few days but then people get used to it, if they don't we let them go back up for a few days or a week and try it again, that usually works. Once they are on 1mg every other day for a couple weeks they usually stop. This is only for maintenance treatment >1year. We have not had success with short term deoxes.

There are people who will never feel right without some external opioid. They will need a low dose forever to feel normal, we have only had one patient like this so far.

Difficulty sleeping is the most common reported symptom. Ambien works for many of them for the first two weeks after bup treatment ends. remember too that sub is a painkiller, once you stop normal pain that you have not had for while will no longer be supresed and you will be more sensitive, don't confuse this with withdrawal.
TXC
The Clinic is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:02 PM   #40
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

Yea, what you said is just about what "most" people have tried.... almost like its getting repedative. I was just curious if you had a different approach or success another way.... unfortunatley all in all..... it's all the same.....
Mary and someone else have quite a long thread on this subject and we should probably move this subject to the proper area. Thanks for the reply
Neil
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:28 PM   #41
Caroline
Senior Member
 
Posts: 812
Default

Clinic, for sleep, most people respond to trazadone which is not habit-forming and is very safe. And the pain that is experienced with withdrawal will subside within a couple of days and can be treated with ordinary anti-inflammatory meds. Patients without a 'pain problem' to begin with, do not complain of continuing sensitivity to pain. If suboxone is discontinued slowly and the last dose is small, pain is usually a non-issue. The most frequent symptoms I've heard of is edginess/anxiety and sweatiness, and for this I allow patients to continue with clonidine.
Caroline
Caroline is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:29 PM   #42
Brett
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,768
Default

I would venture to say that Reckitt Benckiser had many very smart lawyers go over all there literature before It was made availible to the public. Therefore a lawsuit would be fruitless. SUB has saved many lives, mine included. My addictive behavior has ceased. If I have to take 2mg the rest of my life to be able to function So Be It! I also have to take blood pressure meds forever. There is always a group of money hungry people who want to get rich off others. What this does is drives the cost up for people like me. So I hope your lawsuit is a flop. Try other ways to get rich, work hard honestly. It is a sad thing when people try to steal from others, like a leach sucking blood.[}]
I would also like to add,, Almost said thier purpose was to warn others about suboxone ADDICTIVE nature. I know to well about addiction. There is a hugh difference between addiction and physical dependance, I was on methodone another long acting drug, I constantly craved more, On suboxone I forget to take my dose. My addictive behavior is gone. Suboxone may cause physical dependence, not addiction. Almostthere I think your headed nowhere.

[8]rett

[8]
Brett is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:32 PM   #43
The Clinic
Member
 
Posts: 32
Default

Caroline,
I'll tell the docs Monday morning. Thanks!!![8D]
TXC
The Clinic is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:42 PM   #44
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

Check this out regarding the NAABT website, from the heroin-detox board
http://www.heroin-detox.com/topic.as...29&whichpage=3

Also read the fisrt 2 pages as well......
Neil
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 02:58 PM   #45
Sub-Zero
Senior Member
 
Sub-Zero's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,563
Default

What do they think RB pays all of us? Don't they know how a discussion board works? I see this site as science based and the other site as opinion based. To me it makes no difference who pays for the hosting of either site. The other site is paid for by a rapid detox doc, no wonder they ae so negative about sub $$$$.
Sub-Zero is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:05 PM   #46
BadHabits
Senior Member
 
Posts: 296
Default

I guess we are being paid by RB!!!!! WOW!! I don't know about you all, but i am yet to get a check!!!!!!
BadHabits is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:14 PM   #47
Almostthere
Member
 
Posts: 65
Default

Almostthere is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:19 PM   #48
SomeDayBFree
Senior Member
 
Posts: 239
Default

Sub-Zero~

Since I hate to see inaccuracies anywhere, in all fairness, I have to say that I don't believe heroin-detox is sponsored by a rapid detox doc.

The sponsor IS a physician and I do believe he is an anesthesiologist, but there is enough fiercely negative discussion about rapid-detox, that I doubt very much that a pro rapid-detox person/sponsor would tolerate it.

Over the 2 years I have been visiting there(only rarely posting),it actually seems to be a good support site, IF you don't use buprenorphine or methadone or you only use it for a very short detox.

The unfortunate thing is that the people who are having problems because of either inadequate preparation by their physician, unrealistic expectations, or sincere difficulties because there are bound to be those who sincerely have a hugely difficult time, are seen as the majority. This is a very skewed view because those who are successful, which is quite likely the overwhelming majority (if their physician knows what he/she is doing), are highly under-represented. It was my experience there that when I tried to relay my own very positive first experience with buprenorphine (on for 10 months, weaned slowly with minimal difficulty),I was pretty much shot down. The person who repeatedly shot me down, no longer posts there, but seems to have been replaced by another similar individual.

SomeDayBFree
SomeDayBFree is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:31 PM   #49
Brett
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,768
Default

Neil,
I get a hugh check everyday, my life back.

Brett
Brett is offline  
Unread 04-23-2006, 03:31 PM   #50
Brett
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,768
Default

Neil,
I get a hugh check everyday, my life back.

Brett
Brett is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2014 Addiction Survivors