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Unread 02-22-2006, 06:52 PM   #1
Mary
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Default Ros & Mary - Tapering Experiences

4-2-06 EDIT:
Ros is tapering from a methadone transition Christmas '05. Started at 8mg.
Mary is tapering from a heroin transition June '05. Started 16mg.



Hi everyone. I went to my appointment today, and now I am going to taper once again. This time down to 4 from 8. With the option of going up to 6 if needed at times. If anyone has, and has a minute, I'd like to hear how you've done with this. I appreciate it! -Mary
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Unread 02-22-2006, 08:03 PM   #2
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Hi Mary!
I've been on 8mgs for approx. 4 months now, that is what I started at. I have a question for you, I'm sorry I can't help you with yours. When did you start to taper? I'm wondering if it is time for me to start? My appt. is tomorrow.
Thanks!
Doris
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Unread 02-22-2006, 08:36 PM   #3
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Hey Doris (and fellow designer ),
I started at 16 last June, went to 12, then to 8 first of January. Now to 4. It's something my doctor and I had talked about from the beginning. And since there had been times when missing a dose didn't really effect me, he thought it might be time to try 4. Which, I guess, when you get this low, could be a bigger jump. It's normally down 2 then 2 then 2 for a while. But, I'm ok because he left me with the option of being able to take 6 if needed.

For time to start? I think it all depends. How do you feel both physically and psychologically about tapering? If you don't think you even want to try, I wouldn't mention it quite yet, unless you have a good rapport with your doctor, so you don't get stuck and can't go back up. But since you started at 8, and from the reading I've done, 4 might be too big a jump too soon. As they say, the slower the taper, the better! I don't know if my roundabout ramble helped at all, I just would be cautious as it's only been 4 months.

But do let me know what you decide and how it goes tomorrow! Good luck! -Mary
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Unread 02-22-2006, 09:20 PM   #4
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Thanks Mary! I'll keep you posted. Most likely I will stay where I am. My doctor is not in any rush. I was really wondering about the time frame of others, you've helped me!
Thanks again!
Doris
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Unread 02-22-2006, 11:45 PM   #5
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Hi everyone my name is Linda and I am new to this site, about a month. I was at 32mgs ,the max.... I take 16 in the a.m. and 16 in the p.m. well after reading everyones words I couldnt believe I am so high so i took it upon myself to only take 6 in the p.m.(still take my 16 in the am) so far i havent felt any difference and its been 4 days. i know i had a bad meth habit going 75mgs but i thought i needed it to work and be normal ha ha !!! now i am normal and thanxs to this site to let me spread the word and to read all the different experiances.sorry for my typing but my new nails r getting in the way!smile now i have the money to spend on myself wisely!! Linds
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Unread 02-23-2006, 01:04 AM   #6
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Hey Linda, Glad you're doing well. New place, new do, new nails! Cool! Yeah, the best dose is the lowest one that you don't still have cravings or any withdrawal symptoms on. But don't try reducing too fast. Stay where you are for a while and see how that goes. You sound great! Congrats! -Mary
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Unread 02-23-2006, 01:50 AM   #7
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Mary, you will likely do fine, and as long as your doc lets you have the 6 mg option, your safety net is there. But, if you start to get urges and cravings, it would be best to call your doc to discuss this. Maybe you do this already, but I think keeping a suboxone diary might be worthwhile, especially with dose changes...to keep it all sorted out. And judging from your poetry, your diary would be very illustrative of your experiences with suboxone treatment and something to refer to in the future. Good luck.
Caroline
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Unread 02-23-2006, 12:06 PM   #8
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Caroline, Thanks, that's a good idea. I've jotted down notes here and there, but now I think I'll keep more of a daily 'dear diary' :0 to keep track, since it's getting lower. I'll try to keep it from the 'dark side' of my writing tendencies. I'm very fortunate to have a good physician, he had asked for me to call if I had any cravings or wds, so we could assess. I appreciate it Caroline! -Mary
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Unread 02-23-2006, 12:58 PM   #9
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mary i went immediately from 16 to 8 to 4 to 2 mg. i switched off the meth at 30mg to 16 but couldnt afford to take that much it costs to much. so now i went to 2 to 1 and the next couple days im trying none.I will let you know how it goes. so far i get headaches at night a little sweaty but not to bad. Im trying to kick it this weekend.
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Unread 02-24-2006, 10:42 AM   #10
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Thanks Sharon! I appreciate it! Good luck to you. I hope that it goes well and, hey! Congrats on the new job!! Let me know how that goes too. -Mary
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Unread 02-26-2006, 11:38 AM   #11
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Mary So I am on my 72nd hour with no sub now. I slept all night but was up at 5am. It is only 630 now.. So that sucks but other than that I get a little sweaty but not so bad. Since the life on sub is 48-72 hours I dont expect it to be so bad. But I will let you know if it gets worst.
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Unread 02-26-2006, 03:10 PM   #12
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Cool, thanks Sharon! Do you start your new gig tomorrow? I'm hoping that's all there is to it for you. Then if you do start tomorrow, that's so doable.
Up at 5, that's harsh though [xx(] ... -Mary
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Unread 03-28-2006, 11:47 PM   #13
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Hello, well since I seem to be the first 'old timer' here documenting my taper journey, thought I'd let you know I'm now officially down from 4mg. I'm to start 2mg - with the option of adjustments as needed, my doctor is great - tomorrow. So I'll keep anyone who cares posted on how it's going. Thanks. -Mary
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Unread 03-29-2006, 12:37 AM   #14
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Thanks, Mary.
Robert
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Unread 03-29-2006, 10:50 AM   #15
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Mary
Your tapering experience is very important to me. I want to understand your tapering course so I can better treat my own patients. Good Luck and keep us informed.
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Unread 03-29-2006, 01:47 PM   #16
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yeah, mary, do tell. i'm really curious to see how you do. i've noticed that when i go for my weekly doc appt, he always asks me if i had any pills left, and if not, he prescribes me one extra. maybe the same philosophy working? he upped my dose because of my back pain, and it does help, but i'm worried about getting used to a higher dose than i really need (pain aside). i have a heating pad practically strapped to my back 24/7 and it helps a lot. but i have no hope of regaining the feeling in my fingertips again, which blows. i've actually burnt myself pretty bad b/c i couldn't feel it. oh, sh^t, i'm babbling.
keep us posted!
peace,
heidi
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Unread 03-29-2006, 02:13 PM   #17
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Yes, Mary do keep us informed. I think I speak for a lot of us when I say withdrawal is one of my biggest fears. Be sure to tell it like it is, the good and the bad. Thanx, you're very brave. >>>TOM

My Clean Date:09.09.05
Remember, We Can Choose to Act or Be Acted Upon!

*NA RECOVERY LITERATURE**
http://www.na.org/ips/eng/index.htm
HOW TO FIND LOCAL NA MEET
http://www.na.org/links-toc.htm
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http://suboxone.com/
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Unread 03-29-2006, 06:56 PM   #18
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Hi. Thanks for the support, and yes, the good with the bad. The only bad thing today was trying to cut the 1/2 in half. DOH! Note to self: Switch blades in exacto knife....

Heidi, that sucks about the fingertips. Nothing they can do? I don't think you'd get used to a higher dose if you didn't have the pain. I found that if I forgot to take it one day, I didn't miss it. And then for Spanky Scientist's sake, I did an experiment, and didn't really notice anything for over 2 days. That's when I thought, why not try tapering down some. But then again, I'm just the Test Subject. Does it help if you split the dose up like Jay does during the day to help with the pain? I'd say a prayer, but I'd rather send beams to you (did you see my answer to you in the 'Mary' topic?[}] Hey does it work, since this is 'my' topic, 'babble' all you want? In any event, I wish there was something they could do for you.

Thanks all! -Mary
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Unread 03-29-2006, 07:14 PM   #19
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I've thought about the dosing thing before...you hear people talking about the need to taper down to even less than 1 mg a day to avoid withdrawals.

How on earth do you "get" less than one mg a day of sub? I find it easy to split the 8 mg pills into 2 parts, or even 4 parts, which just my fingernails. But it certainly isn't precise, and if I try to split the 2 mg "parts" in half, they just crumble.

So when I hear people talking about taking .50 mg of sub I wonder how in the hell they are measuring that!

Just a passing query....
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Unread 03-29-2006, 07:31 PM   #20
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opiatedeficient, That's what I'm wondering how the hell do you get to 1mg? I've just been sort of 'faking' the 1/2 in half before this. It didn't work to well when I wanted to be precise this morning, dull blade. But I'm thinking about cutting THAT in half. Well, I guess I'll just have to figure that out or divide up the crumbs. And then some were talking about dissolving in water and using an eyedropper. Good query, I'll let you know if I come up with some revolutionary ideas. -Mary
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Unread 03-29-2006, 07:46 PM   #21
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Mary ~

You can purchase quite cheaply, a pill spitter/cutter at any pharmacy. That's what I use and it works rather well. I am able to cut the 2mg tabs into 4 pieces fairly easily and reasonably accurately. I think mine cost a couple of dollars, that's about all.

What is really a shame is that there IS a version of buprenorphine in a significantly lower dose. However, it's not available in this country, but just about everywhere else, by the brand name "Temgesic". I'm not sure who the manufacturer is but I know that it isn't Reckitt-B. It comes in 0.2mg sublingual tablets rather then 2.0mg. Big difference, eh?! This country is so far behind in some ways.... It would be considerably easier for people looking to wean themselves from Sub if it would be available here in such a small dose. Believe it or not, Temgesic is prescribed for pain relief and the 0.2mg tablet is a standard dose. That lets you know how powerful Sub really is!

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Unread 03-29-2006, 07:54 PM   #22
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SomeDayBFree, Thanks! I was thinking of getting one, but no one's ever mentioned them working well before, so I figure I'd try a sharp exacto (being my weapon of choice in my line of work - art). So I wrongly assumed the pill was too crumbly.

But then again, perhaps I'll just move to Europe for my Taper. Scotland sounds nice.
But seriously, that would be quite a convenience for tapering, or even for people who just need a tiny bit for maintenance. Then they'd be sure of getting the correct amount. Hello Reckitt!! Thanks SomeDay, that's a big help. -Mary
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Unread 03-30-2006, 12:09 AM   #23
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The 2mgs pills are so much easier to divide and even more so with the pill splitters from the drug store. I still purchase the 8mgs, because I pay out of pocket and they are so much less expensive.
I'll sit down with all 60 of my 8mg pills and cut them into 2mg pieces at one sitting production style - chop chop.
I've heard of peole getting little jeweler's scales (on the internet for @ $45) for the lower amounts, and weighing out pre-metered doses from the tablets. Some actually crush the tabs into powder, then, very precisely, weigh out the still-smaller doses.
Temgesics at 0.2 and 0.4mg would be very useful for us yanks.

Mary, I've heard a lot about the eye drop method using sub disolved in tap or distilled water. It's not a bad idea, and still others have disolved sub into an aqueous alcohol solution and squirted under the tongue - which has the addded benefit of almost doubling the absorption of buprenorphine, but anything done in the "home lab" could have inherent consistency issues.
2mg pills and the splitter seem to be the best at getting to doses of 0.5mgs.
Good luck - chop chop.

Brook

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Unread 03-30-2006, 11:21 AM   #24
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Thanks Brook. I think when I get below 2 I might have to go to the 2mg pills. Now that I've purchased my handy-dandy pill cutter it's working pretty well! Thanks SomeDayBFree!
The eyedropper gig, that's what I was thinking about- the inconsistency, but I'm not going to stress out about that. That's in a while, so I guess I have time and I'll ask my doctor who has done what, and tell him about what you guys have come up with in the meantime. But I'm thinking that the pill cutter should be pretty ok. And maybe just doing an every other day might work too. Who knows?
I really appreciate everyone taking the time!! -Mary
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Unread 03-30-2006, 11:44 AM   #25
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Best of luck Mary. Seems like your letting your body guide you and that is the best way to ensure an easier taper. Keeping the option open for every other day is a good thing. You can vary on that as well, like every day and a half, every other day, every two and a half days and then every three days and so on, until your body is no longer asking for any. My base taper plan is similar to yours and I am not going to rush it. If I feel I need to spend two weeks at one level, then so be it. There is no hurry.

I wish you great success!

Mike
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Unread 03-31-2006, 01:28 AM   #26
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They really need to manufacture a 1mg which you can score to a .5 at some point.

MARY: What has your dosing schedule been? Where did you start 16mg? for how long etc... I always like to see what others are doing.

Thanks,

NewLife2
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Unread 03-31-2006, 10:55 AM   #27
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Hey newlife2, I'll just copy this from the upper reaches of this post (I've changed the name as it went along).
2/22/06 I started at 16 last June, went to 12, then to 8 first of January. Now to 4. It's something my doctor and I had talked about from the beginning. And since there had been times when missing a dose didn't really effect me, he thought it might be time to try 4. Which, I guess, when you get this low, could be a bigger jump. It's normally down 2 then 2 then 2 for a while. But, I'm ok because he left me with the option of being able to take 6 if needed.

And then....on Monday 3/28/06, Hello, well since I seem to be the first 'old timer' here documenting my taper journey, thought I'd let you know I'm now officially down from 4mg. I'm to start 2mg - with the option of adjustments as needed, tomorrow.

I've not had any problems with the other part of the taper process. I'm a little achy this morning, but hell, who isn't when you're in your 40s. And I also HAVE to remember, I was snorting H for most of my adult life. (Except for the longest clean time of 3 year+ like over 10 years ago.) So there are going to be things that I will notice that could have been there all along but might have hidden by the H. Ok, that's just talking out loud, preparing myself NOT to be a big baby.

But believe me. I'm not going to sugar coat anything. After all, I am Spanky the Scientist's Test Subject. (Spanky, where the hell are you anyways!!!) -Mary
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Unread 03-31-2006, 04:09 PM   #28
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Hi Mary,

40..shoot...your just a spring chicken ! Anyway I started on my sub journey the middle of January this year. Started at 8, first month, 6 for a couple of weeks, then to four. I told Spanky I felt soooooo good I was gonna jump to 2. Well it didn't work for me yet. I got sick, achey, yukky and immediately retreated to my comfort zone of 4 and holding. Please keep us posted as I would like to keep tapering, but I'm not going to suffer either. If the medication is needed to maintain the quality of life I now enjoy, So Be It. Good luck, best wishes, and have a wonderful weekend...brosid.
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Unread 03-31-2006, 04:58 PM   #29
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MARY/BROSID: When you guys talk about starting at 8mg then to 4mg, or 12mg to 8mg do you mean total per day? Or do you mean that is your dose every 4-6 hours?

Thanks,

NewLife
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Unread 04-01-2006, 03:39 PM   #30
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Hey newlife, it means total per day. Like I started with 16mg per day last June, then went to 12mg per day, blah blah blah. Sorry, I didn't even think of it being misconstrued that way because I've always taken it all at once - but who would know that.... Sorry to be confusing. -Mary
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Unread 04-01-2006, 03:41 PM   #31
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Day 4. This sucks. Completely. I'm going back to H. [xx(]
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Unread 04-01-2006, 03:43 PM   #32
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APRIL FOOL!!!!!![8D][8D][][][]
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Unread 04-01-2006, 04:11 PM   #33
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Actually, I didn't sleep real well last night. And I was more achy today. Felt a little better after taking the 2mg. Trying not to dwell too much on it. Took benedryl to help me sleep. Did help a little, after I woke up the first time. But I got out and did a few things. Makes it easier because then I'm not sitting here analyzing everytime I make a move. Which could actually be making it worse than it really is because I'm focusing on it. So. After all that drivel and whining - yes I'd like some cheese with that - it's ok for today. -Mary
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:18 PM   #34
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Hi Mary,
I had no trouble dropping until I hit 2mg, which was 2weeks ago. Up until then I had been taking my dose all at once like you do but suddenly at 2mg I found that although I felt pretty O.K. through the day while I was busy I began having too many sleepless nights which is no fun when you have to be up early for a long workday. I know how much of a pain it is to keep breaking them up into ever smaller pieces but the way I became more comfortable on this dose was to split my 2mg piece into two and take 1mg in the morning when I get up and save the other little sliver until around 3pm. Ever since I did that I haven`t had any trouble sleeping. Thought this might help you too. By the way, how long do you plan to stay on 2mg. I think I should try 1mg per day this week and see how it goes. I`ll let you know .
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:20 PM   #35
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Mary,

I have a question for you or anyone else who has knowledge. I am on day 8 of my meth transfer, I felt better on days 4,5,6 then I have the last 2 days. Iam between 16mg and 20mg dont know what dose is best 4 me. The energy I had is gone, just dont have any amibition to do much. I know this is the hardest transfer but I thought I had it made on day 4. Day 1--3 iwas on 24mg dose then dropped to 16mg days4,5 Back to 20mg on days 6,7. im trying to figure out what dose is right 4 me. can anyone advise?? any help will be appreciated. You all have helped me already more than I can say!

brett
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:24 PM   #36
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One more thing , based on my history do you think I would feel better on 24mg or 12mg?????
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Unread 04-01-2006, 05:51 PM   #37
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Hi Brett,
I started on subs after 10 years on 20ml of methadone and initially needed 8mg for a couple of weeks, so I feel 12mg would probably be too low a dose for you coming off 80mg. This is very early days considering you transfered from such a high dose of methadone. I would think you would probably need at least 16mg, possibly more until all the meth is out of your system. Maybe you could take 16mg in the morning and then add 4 or 8mg more later on in the day until you feel better. Is the main problem the low energy? This seems to be a pretty common theme among people who have made the transition from really high doses but it shouldn`t last too much longer. Good luck Brett.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 06:14 PM   #38
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Ros,


Mostly, I feel the opposite of euthoria, cant think of the word. low energy, low ambition, body aches. I read that this is commen in meth transfers, and can last 2 weeks. My MD has givin me some freedom with my dose , Im just trying to find whats right 4me. I think I was so relived to be out of withdrawl on days 3-4 I was on a natural (HIGH)

brett
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Unread 04-01-2006, 06:32 PM   #39
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I was wondering if anyone has heard from Badboyz lately because he did the transfer from a similar dose about a month ago and was also talking about having no energy for a few weeks. I wish he would respond to your post Brett as his situation was similar to yours but I think from what I remember he needed 24mg at first. It does take a few weeks for the methadone to get out of your system so you may not feel great until then but it sure beats being stuck on methadone forever. The low energy thing will pass and then you will be able to reduce your dose a bit. I started out on 8mg on Xmas day and have reduced to 2mg where I am now stable. Hang in there Brett, it will get better as each day passes.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 06:46 PM   #40
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I dont want to be a discouragement to anyone, Hope I havent. I almost feel bad 4 complaining at all, I am a million times better off now, This medication has helped save my life. I just want everyone to know that! Can some body tell me the word that means oppisite of euthoria? Thats kinda where im at.

brett
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Unread 04-01-2006, 07:19 PM   #41
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Ros:

You've warned to 2mg already? Only since December? WOW great job! I can't wait to be there.

NewLife2
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Unread 04-01-2006, 07:25 PM   #42
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dysphoria:
Opposite of euphoria.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 07:31 PM   #43
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Mary My Little Tomato!!
I bet when your off the Sub completely your gonna be in the mood for some Lovin!! And I am just the guy to squeeze you once your ripe and ready for pickin!! Email me my Little Tomato!! And GOOD LUCK!!
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Unread 04-01-2006, 08:46 PM   #44
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HI newlife2
Thanks a lot. After being stuck on 20mg of methadone for so long and feeling really sick every time I tried to decrease a little I must say the drops on sub have been much easier to tolerate. I had a bit more trouble with sleep with this last drop but as soon as I split the dose into 1mg in the morning and 1mg in the afternoon that problem was solved. Some time this week I will move down to 1mg per day so I will post my progress as I continue to decrease.
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Unread 04-01-2006, 10:53 PM   #45
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Ros:

Keep us posted on how that goes. You are an inspiration.

NewLife2
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Unread 04-02-2006, 12:41 PM   #46
Mary
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Slave My sweet cucumber. Damn. Too bad you're a married man! -Your Little Tomato Mary
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Unread 04-02-2006, 12:56 PM   #47
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Hey, nothing's changed since yesterday. A bit achy and not that great sleep. could be worse. I could have have a clogged toilet like Slave.

brosid, sorry, I thought I wrote a note to you yesterday, but thanks!! Good to hear from you. Yeah, if it's really bad, I'm not going to needlessly suffer either!

Ros, Very cool! Thanks for your insight. I'll give that 1-ish and 1-ish a try -I haven't tried cutting them that small yet... [] . I haven't really decided how long I'll stay at 2 for. I guess it depends on how I feel. I really want to make this as easy as possible for me. And I don't have a time limit either, which is a good thing.

Actually this is going to be a great thread. I think I'll change the name. Because now we have you coming off meth and starting sub in December. And me coming of H, and starting last June. This is a great comparison. Thank you so much!!

brett, hang in there, I don't know about the meth transfer, except that it's the toughest because the meth sits in your liver and fats cells for so long. So I don't know about the dose either. But if you do want to try a lower dose, do it in the morning, so you can take more a couple hours later if you feel you need it? But the first week is generally the week to stabilize, so you're still doing that especially with the meth still coming out into your system. But I have to applaud you! You're doing great! Big beams to you!! -Mary
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Unread 04-02-2006, 10:05 PM   #48
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Hi Mary,
I find as long as you have cut them into 2mg pieces, you can just break them roughly into 2 bits (they don`t have to be exact) and then when you take 1 piece in the morning and the other in the afternoon you know your daily dose equals 2mg. I had a pretty lousy nights sleep last night so I think I will keep taking 2mg for another week or two to be sure I am completely stable for the next drop. Maybe my cutting wasn`t as accurate as it should be and my overall daily dose was on the low side of 2mg yesterday. It`s hard to believe that such a tiny little piece can make such a difference. Oh well! Onward, it`s another day.
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Unread 04-02-2006, 11:33 PM   #49
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Hey Ros, Exactly what I figured out today. It wasn't precise, but what the hell. It ends up being 2 in the end. If the sleep continues on for me for another couple nights, I'm thinking of bumping up to 3/4 for a couple of days. I have a ton of work that needs to get done - I have my own freelance business, so I can't afford to miss anything - so I might see how that goes. It's weird, because the benedryl ALWAYS helped with bouts of insomnia, but... not really the past couple nights. So, we'll see tonight. And with the damn time change here, it's messing me all up!! I'm sorry, I'm just a wee bit cranky. But I did get out in the nice warmth and walk for a while today. Helped with the aches. Hoping it'll help with the sleep.

Isn't it odd how a little tiny piece can have that much of an effect, especially because you've been there for 2 weeks. I guess when we're down this low, every iota makes a difference? Yikes. Well my sister-in-taper, I hope that sleep came easy for you. And I'll check with you tomorrow. Big sleep beams! -Mary
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Unread 04-03-2006, 12:11 PM   #50
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Hi Ros, didn't sleep too well last night AGAIN. So, I'm going to bump up to 3-ish today. I just have so much work to do and can't afford another sleep-deprived night. The aches are little worse, but, of course when you don't sleep well, everything is worse. But no big WDs. No cravings, except to take more so I can sleep. But not for H or for copious amounts of bupe. So, not too bad.

How are you faring Ros? Good taper beams to you! -Mary
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