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Unread 05-28-2016, 09:33 PM   #1
4randk
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Default Starting and scared

Hi Everyone,

This is not the first time that I have been on Subs. I relapsed back in February of this year. I got in real heavy, real fast using oxycodone. The first time I was taking hydrocodone. I have this mentality that I don't want to be out of pills when I start the induction. I dunno, I guess it has something to do with it being my choice not because I have to; if that makes any sense at all. As I said I have been taking large amounts of the oxy and have a very tiny amount left so I took the last dose just over an hour ago and now I wait for the WD to be where they have to, to take my first dose of subs. I'm very nervous about the precipitated WD even though I've never experienced them (I took subs between fills since I relapsed in Feb).

I am very motivated to do this and start attending an intensive outpatient program last week Monday which I will attend 3 hours a day, 5 days a week for about 10 weeks.

So, once I take that first dose of subs and hopefully get through it w/out the PW I will be SO relieved!!! I have been contemplating starting the subs for over a week now, wanting to have more then the amount of pills I have left now; which I will be tossing as soon as I successfully start the subs.

I used a support forum like this one in the past after a surgical procedure and it helped me immensely so am grateful for finding this and look forward to hearing back.

Thanks for taking the time to read

4randk
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Unread 05-28-2016, 10:43 PM   #2
4randk
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I was not sure if I should start a new post or add to this one? I thing adding to this one is the proper way to do it since I read in the policies that multiple posting is frowned on....

Do you ever feel like you are being tested? I swear it seems every time I have tried to switch over to the subs "something" happens that makes me not do it. Something that makes me "think" I need my little blue friends to help me through it.

This time though I am SOL cause I ain't got enough to pull this off so I now have to pull my resources and figure out how to get through it w/out my "friends".

BTW the "thing" that happened is my 3 year old just woke up from a nap with his eye shut closed and full of puss. Pink eye I am sure, but doctors office is closed for the day which means that I will have to take him tomorrow when I am going through WD's. That should be fun.... Hopefully they will be enough that I can start the subs early enough so that by the time we go it will be at least mildly better.
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Unread 05-29-2016, 07:20 AM   #3
NancyB
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Hi 4randk, welcome! How are you doing this morning? Have you seen this link about precipitated withdrawals?
http://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
Page 2 might help to put your mind at ease - it's a charge to see where you're at withdrawals wise.

As far as posting, feel free to add to other people's threads, but if you have questions, comments about how you're doing, it's easier to keep it in one thread so we can go back and see if anything you've posted before helps in helping.

Sorry to hear about your son's pink eye. Yikes. Poor little thing.

Check in when you can!

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 05-30-2016, 11:07 AM   #4
bayoubrad
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Default Bayoubrad

I can identify with starting, and being scared. I began treatment a few months ago, but am finding that some weeks I need more than my prescribed dose, and other weeks I am able to comply with the prescribed dosage. Is it normal to take a few months to get your dosage regulated?

This is causing me alot of stress, because I don't want people at my job thinking there's something wrong, and on some days I have to take more to feel like I can make it through the day, which leaves me short. I'm confused.
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Unread 05-30-2016, 01:58 PM   #5
NancyB
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Hi bayoubrad, when you say you need more to make it through the day, can you elaborate? Please think about if you're feeling that way because of stress or reaction to another emotion when, in your days of addiction, you would have taken a pill to get through it. It generally takes a week to stabilize.

What is your dose supposed to be?

Sorry for all the questions.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 05-30-2016, 02:01 PM   #6
4randk
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Congrads for your length of time in. I guess we all react different to treatment. I guess whatever works for you, you need to do. Running short sucks though. Anyway your Dr. can give you more so you don't run out. My Dr. is very liberal (which is not always a good things as he was the one that prescribed me the oxy back in February knowing my history) and he prescribes the max 4 - 8mg tabs per day which is not what I take or will be taking this time around; at least I don't think so.

Good luck to you and keep up the good work!
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Unread 05-30-2016, 02:06 PM   #7
4randk
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Hi Nancy,

Thanks for responding. Yes, I did read that link many many times and still I made the mistake of starting too soon. It was awful. When I took the first 2mg I didn't feel too bad but about an hour after taking it I felt like I wanted to crawl out of my skin. I could not stay still. I actually thought about scratching the scrap out of my legs and arms and then the hot/cold flashes set in. Never got the GI upset but was very depressed. Spend almost the entire day in bed. Thanks to my parents who helped with the boys and my husband who helped with me. Today I feel a little better, but not great. I just have no idea what my starting dose should be so guess will try and figure that out today. Started with 8mg when I woke at 6am
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Unread 05-30-2016, 02:42 PM   #8
4randk
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Default how to figure out dose now?

After screwing up yesterday and starting too soon, how do I figure out what dose I should be on now. I am not using my Dr. for the time being for complicated reasons but the medication was from him so soon I will "fill" him in.

In the meantime, any help with figuring out dose for today would be much appreciated. I took 8mg when I woke at 6am.

Thanks
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Unread 05-30-2016, 04:19 PM   #9
NancyB
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Hi 4randk, yikes, that must have been horrible. Ugh. What time zone are you in - trying to figure out how long ago 6 am was for you. lol

How are you feeling - any cravings or withdrawals? If you're still having them, you can think about taking just 1 or 2mg more. Wait an hour or so and re-evaluate.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 05-30-2016, 09:42 PM   #10
4randk
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Default Time Zone / update

Hi Nancy,

I am in Hawaii.... I feel a bit better. Still hot/cold flashes and NO energy or motivation... that't that part that sucks the most since my blue friends gave me much of that. I took a total of 20mg so far today and I think I am good.

Question I have is if I have hot/cold flashes while sleeping does that mean I should have taken more?
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Unread 05-30-2016, 09:43 PM   #11
4randk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi 4randk, yikes, that must have been horrible. Ugh. What time zone are you in - trying to figure out how long ago 6 am was for you. lol

How are you feeling - any cravings or withdrawals? If you're still having them, you can think about taking just 1 or 2mg more. Wait an hour or so and re-evaluate.

Nancy
so 6am was 10 hours ago....
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Unread 05-31-2016, 07:16 AM   #12
NancyB
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Hi 4randk, what were you taking before you started the bupe? I saw you mention large amounts of oxycodone, but if you wouldn't mind being a little more specific. What formulation of bupe are you taking? Generic Suboxone, generic bupe only, Zubsolv? Sorry for all the questions. It's just that for alot of people, too much medication makes them lethargic. You only want to take enough to stop cravings and withdrawals. Urges are different, and maybe this will help explain the difference:

If you have an urge, some people have distracted themselves and it usually goes away. If that's the case, then you don't need more medication. If you get cravings that you cannot distract yourself from, then you may need more medication. Here's the difference. From:
http://www.naabt.org/glossary.cfm

Craving: Powerful desire for a substance that cannot be ignored. Unnaturally strong desire/urge for a substance. An overpowering urge that people are ill-equipped to control through will. Usually it cannot be suppressed indefinitely and results in taking the substance. Cravings are a symptom of the abnormal brain adaptations of addiction.
Craving (formerly called psychological dependence ) is an intense desire to reexperience the effects of a psychoactive substance. Craving is the cause of relapse after long periods of abstinence.(N Engl J Med 2003;349:975-86.)(see urges)


Urge: Unlike cravings, urges can usually be suppressed by willpower. Urges are less powerful than cravings. Urges are often passing and temporary. Cognitive skills can be learned to effectively suppress urges. Urges can usually be traced back to a source like stress, depression, anxiety, etc. which provides motivation for the escape or comfort of the substance, while cravings may have no external source and the person may have no idea why they are craving and may actually not want to take the drug at all. (see cravings)

Check in when you have a chance - sorry for all the questions.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 05-31-2016, 12:59 PM   #13
4randk
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I was taking about 30 - 30mg of the oxy IR. Stated with less but got to that number pretty quick. I am taking pure buep (subutex).

I'm actually really upset today cause I asked my pain specialist to put me back on the subs and his answer was "I'm not inclined to do this". WTF I mean he shouldn't have even put me on the oxy to begin with no matter how much I tried to convince him; he knew my history. I am still trying to convince him, but if he does not I will have to find someone else and there aren't many here on the Islands. Luckily I still have about 200 of the 8mg left.
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Unread 05-31-2016, 01:01 PM   #14
4randk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi 4randk, what were you taking before you started the bupe? I saw you mention large amounts of oxycodone, but if you wouldn't mind being a little more specific. What formulation of bupe are you taking? Generic Suboxone, generic bupe only, Zubsolv? Sorry for all the questions. It's just that for alot of people, too much medication makes them lethargic. You only want to take enough to stop cravings and withdrawals. Urges are different, and maybe this will help explain the difference:

If you have an urge, some people have distracted themselves and it usually goes away. If that's the case, then you don't need more medication. If you get cravings that you cannot distract yourself from, then you may need more medication. Here's the difference. From:
http://www.naabt.org/glossary.cfm

Craving: Powerful desire for a substance that cannot be ignored. Unnaturally strong desire/urge for a substance. An overpowering urge that people are ill-equipped to control through will. Usually it cannot be suppressed indefinitely and results in taking the substance. Cravings are a symptom of the abnormal brain adaptations of addiction.
Craving (formerly called psychological dependence ) is an intense desire to reexperience the effects of a psychoactive substance. Craving is the cause of relapse after long periods of abstinence.(N Engl J Med 2003;349:975-86.)(see urges)


Urge: Unlike cravings, urges can usually be suppressed by willpower. Urges are less powerful than cravings. Urges are often passing and temporary. Cognitive skills can be learned to effectively suppress urges. Urges can usually be traced back to a source like stress, depression, anxiety, etc. which provides motivation for the escape or comfort of the substance, while cravings may have no external source and the person may have no idea why they are craving and may actually not want to take the drug at all. (see cravings)

Check in when you have a chance - sorry for all the questions.

Nancy
I would say I am having a mixture of both probably urges more so
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Unread 06-01-2016, 07:29 AM   #15
NancyB
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Hi 4randk, how are you doing today? How much did you take yesterday? Did your doctor say why he is 'not inclined' to do so? If not, press him for an answer. I'm assuming since you see a pain specialist and he started you on oxy, you have chronic pain? Does the bupe help with the pain? If it does, it generally works better for pain a low - 2 to 4mg doses - every 4 to 6 hours. That's about how long the analgesic properties last. Doing that could also help you get your dose down, especially if you're still feeling lethargic. Bupe has a 'ceiling' which means that after a certain point (average is thought to be around 12mg), taking more doesn't do anything except exacerbate any side effect or make people feel really tired, sometimes anxious or depressed too. That's why it's best to take the least amount your body needs.

Hopefully the outpatient program can help you learn to deal with the urges. This CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) link has helped a bunch of people here during treatment.
https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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Unread 06-01-2016, 11:36 PM   #16
4randk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB View Post
Hi 4randk, how are you doing today? How much did you take yesterday? Did your doctor say why he is 'not inclined' to do so? If not, press him for an answer. I'm assuming since you see a pain specialist and he started you on oxy, you have chronic pain? Does the bupe help with the pain? If it does, it generally works better for pain a low - 2 to 4mg doses - every 4 to 6 hours. That's about how long the analgesic properties last. Doing that could also help you get your dose down, especially if you're still feeling lethargic. Bupe has a 'ceiling' which means that after a certain point (average is thought to be around 12mg), taking more doesn't do anything except exacerbate any side effect or make people feel really tired, sometimes anxious or depressed too. That's why it's best to take the least amount your body needs.

Hopefully the outpatient program can help you learn to deal with the urges. This CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) link has helped a bunch of people here during treatment.
https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

Nancy
Hi Nancy,

Thanks for the feedback. I took 24mg yesterday and still feeling tired. Tomorrow I will take 4 mg every 4-6 hours as you suggested as well as someone in my IOP suggested. Hopefully that will help. I got some negative feedback on not staying on it too long. What is your suggestion on this? Most said they stayed on it for a week and started tapering the 3rd day. By doing this will it lesson the WD from it or will it be a combination of the oxy and sub WD. I was thinking if staying on it for awhile as it seems to help with my depression which antidepressants have failed. What are your thoughts?
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Unread 06-02-2016, 06:48 AM   #17
NancyB
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Hi 4randk, try not to take more than 24mg. That could be a contributing factor in how tired you're feeling. If you still feel tired, then think about trying 2mg every 4 to 6 hours instead.

Everyone has their own opinion on bupe. This thread might be helpful in explaining the phases of treatment - the medication is just a small part.
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=23809

Over the years, I've seen people here successful with short-term treatment and successful with long-term treatment. As far as tapering off, it's really more to do with how the person tapers off than length of time on the medication. The main objective is to take care of the psycho-social aspects of addiction before tapering off. I know a couple of people personally who started bupe in the clinical trials and tapered off 8 and 12 years later without issue. They tapered slowly and methodically. I've also seen people taper off quickly without addressing any behavioral issues only to relapse and start again with bupe, but adding in the psycho-social aspect the second time around and being more successful.

It's really an individual process. So you have to do what is right for you.

As for treatment resistant depression; there are people who find that bupe is the only that helps with that.

Nancy
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Important disclaimer: Any information in this post is not and does not constitute medical advice under any circumstances. Addiction Survivors, Inc. does not warranty or guarantee the accurateness, completeness, adequacy or currency of the information contained in or linked to the Site. Your use of information on the Site or materials linked to the Site is entirely at your own risk. NEVER take any online advice over that of a qualified healthcare provider. Any information contained on AddictionSurvivors.org should only serve to inspire further investigation with credible, verifiable references sources such as your physician or therapist.
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