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Unread 09-20-2014, 07:41 AM   #1
OhioMike
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Exclamation NO - You are Not Clean!

NO - You are Not Clean!


…….. & nor are you dirty!


Yes, this nasty old wore out way of thinking has reared it’s ugly face again, as it has a way of doing.


YES, as it mostly does, it came once again from the 12 step rooms. ………. PLEASE, let’s not make this about 12 Step Bashing. I like the program and use it, but, as with any tool we have, it is not perfect. And this also comes from the anti Sub crowd, 12 Steppers or not, as we have experienced well here.


This is about the simple and very misguided thought of “Clean or Dirty” in terms of using a medical tool in the battle against addiction. I could rant forever about this, but, let me ask you this ………………


Isn’t our goal to life a happy and productive life free of active addiction? …….. And doesn’t living IN addiction mean a great deal more than simply abusing a substance??? ……….. Isn’t living in active addiction more about how it has changed, controls and has ruined our entire life? Isn’t that the real issue, the big picture and the true beast?


When we choose Suboxone as a tool in our recovery we have a choice, we can “choose” to use Suboxone as a replacement substance and just continue a life in active addiction or we can use it as it is intended, as a proactive “medication” to treat a chronic condition and live a life addiction free, productive and happy!


Living IN addiction is much more than a substance. ……. Folks, I know people who have been 100% substance free for 20 years, yet, they have made a program like NA their replacement drug and still live a life in Active Addiction, still never finding the freedom they seek. Think about that, they have made a non Substance their replacement drug and it isn’t limited to NA or any other 12 Step program. It could be private therapy, other types of group therapy and so on.


So please, seek a life addiction free. It doesn't matter if that includes Suboxone or not.
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Unread 09-20-2014, 10:13 PM   #2
maxxx
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Default NO - You are Not Clean!

Well....
You have caught me at a good/bad time.
I agree, just what is the point of living an addiction free life or How it live.
I'm really beside myself these last few weeks.
3 years and 9months ago I started in recovery. A world I never new.

I was told right off the bat that I was clean, and man did I feel clean. STILL DO.
I was also told not to talk about bupe when I go to these meetings my clinic
said I must go to. Fine. I went.. 600 meet go later, and as know as the "Suboxone Sponsor, I've left NA
or have been shined out. I'm hurt to know that the fellowship here and in the surrounding towns make fun and joke about MY recovery. I stood my ground and had a true heart to heart with some that I was close to. It didn't matter.
I know what the B Tex says, they are still stuck on bulletin 29!!! So, I've sat and waited to for someone, anyone to call, text, just to see how I'm doing... It's not going to happen..

Before some of you say I'm butthurt or being a baby, let me say this, I did everything I was asked to do. Service steps., no, not all of them, chaired, and then after I finally stood up for other subbers, became.. well, not one of them. "well max, just get off of that stuff man", Really??? Mike, we can't really win with all of this. I could talk about it forever too. But when this country is losing 45 people a day to opiate addiction, how can a medicine be so wrong

Today I can even hear there message.. Sad for me.. I could bash here but I'll stop.. Sheeh, there's so much more but I'll stop..

The GOOD NEWS is, we have a Suboxone, 12stepish, support group here that is just over 2hears old now.
Oh that's the other thing, the local na's found out about this group and my huge support of it. So.

This is one group, In one town. Maybe 12step groups in other towns are different. I ll guess, no,..
I needed help and I thank them for helping me. I'm the oldest guy there at 56. These 20 an 30 somethings have
there click packs witch I do not belong. That's OK. Thing is, I have change everything an everybody in my life. Can't go back to the good time bar. No drugs an no drink. Not even a beer.. After 36years of "using", I'm doing great...

I think.......

Max
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Unread 09-21-2014, 06:39 AM   #3
reti4455
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Default

I get the same crap from NA group around here about not being truly straight while on subs. Let them think what they want. I,m a little older then person above. I wish they had subs back when I was in my teens or even twentys. Back then I wouldn,t think twice about breaking into a business or robbing someone to get what I needed just to feel better.
Tried NA, AA many times through the years.
Allways worked but there was never enough money. Stopped that unlawful stuff many years ago and even managed to get straight off and on.
Eventually lost everything due to addiction, family, friends and home.
Even though I,ve slipped while on subs and had to start over again I really feel like I,m straight and have accomplished something positive now that I,m back on them.
I don,t want to be on them forever but even if I was would that be a truly bad thing. I think not.
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Unread 10-14-2014, 08:02 PM   #4
jimash55
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Default Maxx

...I'm a little late responding to this topic but I have been so busy lately. I understand about all the stigma that goes on at the meetings-been there and heard it. I haven't been to a AA/NA meeting in a couple of years. I just didn't fit and I wasn't going to sit there and fake it.Now-The past few years I have got to know myself pretty well and it's not good for me to isolate and just take my medication..it will work for a while but not forever. I am a Veteran and belong to a small group there that meets once a month-that's it. I spoke with the Director of the Buprenorphine program and explained the stigma/ guilt that people on Medication Assisted Treatment receive at the majority of 12 step meetings. The two of us set down and talked and I had his blessings at arranging a MAT group - outside of the regular monthly meeting. So the ball is in my court and it's up to me what I do with it. I rambled enough and my point is this Maxx- go ahead and start your own MAT meeting. I'm doing this for me as I know the end result when I am alone! Stay Strong and keep posting!
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Unread 10-21-2014, 08:41 AM   #5
gotoffmdone
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Has any Suboxone only support group sprung up. I know it would take someone's initiative to get it started and if that has happened anywhere God bless. It is a shame to have to remain in the closet just because you are getting a form of medical asst treatment. One would think the least close minded people when it comes to Suboxone as a tool for recovery would be those who have suffered this disease. My guess is they have a problem with the disease concept itself, thus why the need for medication. As far as being clean or not clean taking Sub, in my opinion, that is a moot point.


wayne
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Unread 11-01-2014, 09:06 PM   #6
Dan458
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I'm thinking that if some of the energy spent complaining about semantics and NA's non-commodious position vis-ΰ-vis suboxone therapy, was directed towards a program more favorable towards suboxone therapy, that all concerned would be better served. It ain't like anyone has cornered the market on 12-step programs:

AA – Alcoholics Anonymous
AAA – All Addictions Anonymous
ABA — Anorexics and Bulimics Anonymous
ACA or ACOA Adult Children of Alcoholics
AL-ANON – for friends and family members of Alcoholics

CA – Cocaine Anonymous
CDA – Chemically Dependent Anonymous

CEA – Compulsive Eaters Anonymous
CLA – Clutterers Anonymous

CMA – Crystal Meth Anonymous
CoDA –Co-Dependents Anonymous

CO-ANON – For friends and family of cocaine addicts
COSLAA – CoSex and Love Addicts Anonymous
DA – Debtors Anonymous
Dep-Anon – Depressed Anonymous
DDA – Dual Diagnosis Anonymous
DRA –Dual Recovery Anonymous
EA –Emotions Anonymous

EAA –Eating Addictions Anonymous
EDA – Eating Disorders Anonymous

FA or FAA – Food Addicts Anonymous or Food Addicts in Recovery Anonymous
GA – GamblersGamblers Anonymous
Gam-Anon – for friends and family members of problem gamblers
GSA – GreySheeters Anonymous
MA – Marijuana Anonymous
MA – Methadone Anonymous & Methadone Support.org
NA – Narcotics Anonymous
NAR-ANON – for friends and family members of addicts
NicA – Nicotine Anonymous
OCA – Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous

OA - Overeaters Anonymous
OLGA – On-Line Gamers Anonymous
RA – Recoveries Anonymous
SA – Spenders Anonymous
WA – Workaholics Anonymous


PS: I didn't mean to post the above entries as links.

Last edited by Dan458; 11-01-2014 at 09:11 PM..
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Unread 11-02-2014, 12:28 AM   #7
theswan
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I love AA because the fellowship gave me hope and transformed my way of thinking. AA gave me a host of friends many of whom I have to this day including my dearest friends. I served AA on many levels of service positions from area special needs chair all the way up to the most important job-coffee maker! (Bill W said it was the GSR and I have done that a few times)

27 years sober, I now have cut way back and may not go back. I have a life and while AA helped greatly, I am not an indentured servant. I am not annoyed at those who have become addicted to recovery as I once was as well. If they are happy then yea!

My two cents are this: If you are in suboxone treatment, unless you are a very, very secure person with a high level of security, keep it to yourself. What have you to gain? The only requirement is a desire to..that means one can even still be drinking or high and be a member so long as they have true desire to stop. The only point I see in bringing it up is if it may be of service (use) to another but to try and mold AA/NA to fit your brand of recovery is useless and bends the traditions.

Suboxone is a useful tool but it is also an "outside" issue with no place in the rooms except as it is utilized by you personally.

Clean? dirty? if ya ask me is just plain silly. The question should be "are you reasonably happy and of service to others?" If answered honestly to the affirmative, I do not judge any way you choose to live or get sober or even NOT get sober!

Glen
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Unread 12-03-2014, 12:03 PM   #8
eem
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Clean or not, its a heel of a lot better than the way I was living before. I'll take suboxone over any day over being a slave to prescription sellers who charge 8 or 9 dollars each. I'm happy with my life now and to me that's all that matters.
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