Still Existing

[jasel]

Hi Nancy et al.

I stopped following the forums, but lately have been buried in severe depression, so I thought I'd look for some help.

I'm taking 4-16mgs now. It seems like anything over 2mgs and I'm okay. Or am I?

I've been on Sub for a couple of years now, and I feel like it's causing me to get more and more removed from any happiness. Should I think about weaning myself off these things?

I have been really lucky in finding a doctor who is very liberal. I asked him to switch me to Subutex and he didn't even blink. So now my meds are $10 month. But I'm wondering if the generics don't have as good a release mechanism as the brand name. I find myself waking early and having to take a piece of a pill. The generics are really bitter too.

Well, just wanted to stop in and say hi and hope all are well. I'll delve more into my Sub issues later. james

[sarah]

Originally Posted by jasel

I'm taking 4-16mgs now. It seems like anything over 2mgs and I'm okay.

jasel,
You should stabilize on the same dose every day. Your body can't get back to normal if you are fluctuating your dose or taking it as needed. Stick with the lowest dose that still works and after the first day that you forget to take it, go down a little until the next time that you forget and so on.
Sarah

[NancyB]

Hi James, good to see you again, but sorry it's under these circumstances. Sarah is right, you need to stabilize on one dose. That constant up and down could be adding to how you feel depression-wise. There was someone else a little while ago who was fluctuating on her doses and was suffering with depression. Once she stabilized on the lowest dose that stopped her cravings and withdrawals and stuck with it, she felt much, much better.

One woman posted that she needed more of the generic -tex to equal what she was taking of the brand name. Otherwise, no one has had any complaints about that.

Good to 'see' you.

Nancy

[Mary]

Hey jasel, I'm with them. You gotta find one dose that's good for you and stabilize. Those fluctuations can really mess with you big time. Hey, maybe it's just 4mg a day if you're good with anything over 2mg. But you gotta do that first to see where you're at.

Positive energy beams! -Mary

[jasel]

Thanks for the thoughts.

I keep seeing these things about how they are able to pinpoint trouble spots in peoples' brains, and Sub is a blessing is some ways. Why isn't there something that will light a fire under me and make me feel like getting out of bed?

[NancyB]

Hi jasel, get yourself stabilized on the lowest dose that's effective for you for a week or so and see how you feel then. If you're still feeling depressed, you might think about going to the doctor for a check up to make sure it's nothing physical - get bloodwork done, thyroid checked, etc. Then, if you're still not feeling well, maybe talk with a doctor about an anti-depressant to see if that is helpful.

Please keep in touch so we know how you're doing.

Nancy

[jasel]

Been through all that. None of it's helped. The opiates worked for awhile, but we all know where that leads.

Initially the Sub seemed to be helping but now I feel like I'm back where I was.

I've got to figure out how to change my behaviors so that I can move toward some kind of life other than just existing. I wonder how much the Sub is doing just nullifying my feelings and emotions.

[HumboldtGrown]

"I've got to figure out how to change my behaviors so that I can move toward some kind of life other than just existing. I wonder how much the Sub is doing just nullifying my feelings and emotions." Jasel thanks for that.

I sometimes feel depressed too. I've had a lot of emotional recovery lately which is learning how to regulate my emotions and deal with them. I think subox sometimes is making me feel okay with life situations (like my housekeeping job) that I really don't feel good about but can't do anything except what I have been doing: ie looking for a new more gratifying job and a lot of us know how it's hard when you have any type of record.

Being aware of situations in my life that may not be good for me with or without subox is something now I'm carefully looking at. But trying to be stable should be #1.

Have you talked to counselor and been in group? What type of support system is in place for you? (family, friends?) What emotions or feelings seem nullified?

[NancyB]

Hi jasel, please really think about stabilizing on one dose and see if that helps. Are you exercising at all? That will help get your natural endorphins working. When was the last time you saw a therapist, maybe you need a different one with a different approach.

Have you ever used CBT? Think about checking this link out and see if it something that might help:
http://www.addictionsurvivors.org/vb...ad.php?t=22482

How much Suboxone have you been taking for the last few days?

Nancy

[Mike]

Originally Posted by jasel

Initially the Sub seemed to be helping but now I feel like I'm back where I was.

I've got to figure out how to change my behaviors so that I can move toward some kind of life other than just existing. I wonder how much the Sub is doing just nullifying my feelings and emotions.

You've fallen into a rut. Here's how you get out, first stabilize on the lowest dose that still stops cravings and withdrawal. Next, change your daily routine. This is hard to do and might seem insignificant, but it isn't. By changing your routines and your surroundings you trigger different parts of your brain. My counselor had me rearrange my furniture, wake up a goto sleep at a different time. Eat different meals, try very hard to change things and it really does change the way you think and it will help to get you out of the rut.

I didn't believe it at first, but one day I rearranged my bedroom and the next day when I woke up I could feel brain working to make sense of the new surroundings. Its that feeling of the brain working to make sense of something that is making new pathways in the brain and making changes.

Go for a walk, back your car into your spot instead of pulling in, anything to change and force your brain out of the rut. Once you do this, more important things will start happening in your life. Do you have a hobby or new skill you can learn? That helps too. Believe me this works, but you've got to start right now.

[cferd]

Hey Jasel, I can relate very well to what your saying. In fact I can honestly say that's where I'm at right about now. Mike has some pretty good ideas in his reply, I'm going to give it a try, how about you?
Nancy is right, getting your self on a consitent dose will really help you out as it has so many before you. Getting your thyroid checked is another good idea. An over active thyroid can cause many of the problems you mentioned. Hope things turn around for you soon.

[jasel]

Kind of hard to believe that it was only a week ago I was in a hole I thought I might not get out of. There have been several times that the only thing that prevents my taking my own life is fear.

I'm not saying life is good now, just that at least I'm still here. And if I'm still here, as small as it is, if the solution exists, so does the possibility of finding it. When they passed out brains, I got a lemon. They got it running, but it rarely gets moving. To get on the highway, I need to be in 3rd gear at least. So I am crawling along on some back road in the dark, alone. And so many times when I try to shift gears, I end up in reverse. And it's amazing how fast I can goes backwards.

[NancyB]

Hi jasel, glad to hear you're starting to feel better. Keep heading in the right direction, keep looking forward and don't get down on yourself. You're on the right path now, which is great.

Let us know how you're doing.

Nancy

[Mary Magdalene]

jasel
a fellow writer, at last? please, please say that you are, and one with a capable brain to boot? jesus, the only reason that i BOUGHT this laptop was so i could write for hours on end without my right hand cramping up.
but i have a question. maybe you have an answer (of some kind). what if the rut that i'm stuck in is a rut that i love. a new hobby would detinate my availability to write. shifting gears would threaten my stability.
what if the only thing that heroin didn't strip you of is that same rut?
should i lock myself out, into the cold, the dark? or is it ultimatly better to seek a new light elsewhere?
terrified of losing,
mary magdalene

[jasel]

Not a writer. Capable brain. I'm not sure what else you're asking, but I know that cold and dark don't sound healthy.

These boards are filled with people whom opiates made "feel normal". But as most of us found, the price is too high. It doesn't matter how much you have.

So we have Suboxone. An opportunity to find ways to feel normal without the toll opiates bring. A chance to move forward.

I could pick up the phone, and be smoking pot in a few hours. And I can lay in bed with everything I need within reach. And I won't care, but I will continue to exist until poor diet and lack of exercise causes my health deteriorates to the point I fade away. This is assuming, of course, that death is the end.

Or I can realize I've already wasted 40 years of my life, most of it struggling with depression. I can't change those years. So my life began today, and I'm the only one who can choose where it goes.

[JamesContin]

jasel I have found that the longer I am on subutex, the more I am depressed, exhausted, and unmotivated. I'm afraid it is something that just comes with maintenance. For the first couple of years or so this was not the case but it turned on me.

[NancyB]

Originally Posted by JamesContin

jasel I have found that the longer I am on subutex, the more I am depressed, exhausted, and unmotivated. I'm afraid it is something that just comes with maintenance. For the first couple of years or so this was not the case but it turned on me.

Hi JamesContin, I posted in another thread, that extreme exhaustion is oftentimes a signal that a dose reduction is needed.

Have you tried to go lower than 8mg?

Nancy

[JamesContin]

Nancy I just got to 8mg. I started my taper a few months ago. All the symptoms I've mentioned appeared about 2 years into "treatment" and got worse and worse. I was warned that it would happen and I laughed at those that warned me. Lowering my dose even in half (very slowly) has done nothing for my lack of energy or depression.